Social Security Trust Fund will be empty by 2032

[Neto]

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v70 ... 3p111.html

(An article issued by the government.)

As one can see in the charts in this article, there are all kinds of possible outcomes. The projection of necessary rate reductions (and the estimate of 2033 or 2034 as a failure date) is toward the more pessimistic range of the possible outcomes. Another source says that 1/2 of the people continue to apply for SS at 62, and receive significantly lower rates, saving considerable funds for the program itself. The current full retirement age is someplace around 67. The deal about raising it to 70 is something that is under consideration, not a sure deal. (Maybe just a scare tactic. This sort of talk has been going on as far back as I can recall.)

Regarding those who do not participate in the program, I know of two older relatives of my wife who worked until they were simply no longer able to do so at all, one into his mid 80's, and the other until he could no longer do so safely (he had a cabinet shop), which was about a year before he passed away. I know for sure that for one of them this was due to their financial situation, not just that he wanted to work that many hours every week.

[Josh]

Let’s face it: everyone my age and younger will be working until the day we die (other than the top 0.1% of wealthy elite, but it’s not like they do any real work right now anyway).

That does make me a bit cynical about workers being robbed of 15% of their wages to pay older, richer people who probably own their homes and bought them they were cheap. The young workers meanwhile can barely afford ever-rising rents.

[barnhart]

I didn't realize that Ken considers himself Anabaptist.

Posts have been moved pending examination of credentials.

Perhaps you should move my previous comment with Ken's.

[Neto]

I didn't realize that Ken considers himself Anabaptist.

Posts have been moved pending examination of credentials.

It is a silly question: "What suggestions can Anabaptists provide to address this situation?"

Because the correct answer is none.

There are no suggestions that that Anabaptists can provide to address the fact that the Social Security program will reach deficit status in about 10 years because it is not a religious question. It is a political question. Just like there is nothing specifically that Baptists or Catholics can suggest either. It is like asking what suggestions can Anabaptists provide to address the Electoral College or Interstate Commerce Clause.

And this isn't even a current events topic. It is a politics topic. The last time that Congress tinkered with Social Security was back in the Reagan Administration. And there is nothing in particular that makes it a current event in 2023 except that politicians are talking about it for political reasons. Which again makes it a political topic. In point of fact, there is nothing that Congress or anyone else needs to do in 2023, or ever actually. They can just do nothing and let the program run a deficit. Or they can tinker with it at any other point down the road.

If you want to ask a different question. Namely, whether Anabaptists should participate in Social Security. That would be a religious question. Or at least a question that can be answered on religious grounds. And that would be a subject for the Anabaptist Theology and Practice forum.

As to the side question about my own religious leanings? I grew up in an Anabaptist church and attended (and was a member of) Anabaptist churches for many years. And I still hold to many of the tenants of that denomination. But like many others on this forum, MacPC included, my wife and I don't currently attend an Anabaptist congregation. We attend one in a different denomination.

So if you want to be a stickler about things. Actuarial questions about the solvency of the Social Security program should be in the politics forum because they aren't about current events or religion. And religious questions about participation in the Social Security program should be in the religion forums, because they aren't about current events either.

Whether they should have responded when asked for input or not is a different question, but some Mennonite men in the colonies were invited to make suggestions to the government of the Russian Empire, sometimes directly to the Czars, of whom some visited in Mennonite homes in the colonies as well. Local politicians here in Holmes County also seek the advice of leaders in the Amish community. (And didn't some Amish men meet with former President D. Trump?)

But I guess I took the question as referring to how "anabaptists" should respond in general to this situation. Perhaps financial advice offered to those who are registered with the SS system as to how they should prepare for this possibility, and then also even forming a plan to assist non-Mennonite people in our communities who may experience severe financial needs as a result of these changes, should any of this actually happen. That, at least, is not political. It is, rather, what the Church is about.

[RZehr]

One suggestion, could be that they develop stronger convictions about the responsibility of taking care of their own old parents; teaching the importance of children and that children are a blessing, not an expense; that the church should bear one another’s burdens. Teaching the importance of safe and healthy eating practices. Practice medical cost sharing. And not look to the government to meet our needs.

The government has been exceptionally gracious by giving us a tax exemption. With many members self employed, that 15%, if used wisely and shared, in conjunction with conviction, would cover all of our needs.

This 15% might provide sole proprietors with quite a tax advantage over competing businesses, causing the business to flourish, which in turn give the church community more to meet the needs.

[mike]

I didn't realize that Ken considers himself Anabaptist.

Posts have been moved pending examination of credentials.

It is a silly question: "What suggestions can Anabaptists provide to address this situation?"

Because the correct answer is none.

There are no suggestions that that Anabaptists can provide to address the fact that the Social Security program will reach deficit status in about 10 years because it is not a religious question. It is a political question. Just like there is nothing specifically that Baptists or Catholics can suggest either. It is like asking what suggestions can Anabaptists provide to address the Electoral College or Interstate Commerce Clause.

Well, that's part of it. The other part of it is that Anabaptism by definition is a two-kingdom theology, and so developing solutions for civil governments isn't within its purview.

[mike]

One suggestion, could be that they develop stronger convictions about the responsibility of taking care of their own old parents; teaching the importance of children and that children are a blessing, not an expense; that the church should bear one another’s burdens. Teaching the importance of safe and healthy eating practices. Practice medical cost sharing. And not look to the government to meet our needs.

These are very long term values that take generations to develop, and to deteriorate. By the time we realize we haven't done these things, it is too late for the current generation of retirees. It's not too late to teach younger people, and that should all be done posthaste. Why aren't there classes on these topics in all the Mennonite Bible schools? Maybe there are, I don't know.

[Josh]

Anabaptists actually do have a great deal to offer in terms of how to deal with retirement, the disabled, the aged, the widowed, and orphans, which is what Social Security was set up to address.

We answer not with policy but with Bible answers. We believe the Bible has the answers for all of the above.

[Josh]

My neighbour (as in my literal neighbour) seems to subsist on SSDI/SSI as do his children. His mother (I assume) also lives off of Social Security. So yes, this does very much concern Anabaptists. We all have neighbours who will be affected by the impending doom of both Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid.

[MaxPC]

Reminder: this thread is seeking the viewpoint of practicing Anabaptists; no one else.

I find some of the Anabaptist strategies quite practical, e.g. investing in land as a form of pension fund. I agree that there are “grasshoppers” who fiddle away instead of working to save.

Are there any other Anabaptist approaches or have they all been covered?