Josh wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:39 pmSo what's missing here? The money is there, the staffing levels are there, and the things like buildings and facilities are too.
What you are missing is that Baltimore is one of the poorest cities in the country and poverty exacerbates every social problem from youth violence to educational attainment. As the article I cited from today about Omaha noted:
"It really comes back to those poverty issues -- housing, unemployment, education," he told ABC News. "We really have gone upstream to address those issues, while also building better communication channels with the police department."
The take-home message from Omaha? "Nothing stops a bullet like a job"
...
As I just documented, the public school system is providing a massive amount of jobs there, 10,000 to be specific, and over 1600 of these are $100k+ jobs. There are fewer than 8 students for each staff member.
Now you are pivoting and saying that a very poorly performing school system can be blamed on "poverty". Well, pray tell, Ken, what can be done about poverty? Obviously spending a lot of money on schools, school employee salaries, administrators, teachers, and school buildings doesn't budge things one inch.
Baltimore doesn't have high unemployment (3.1%), comparable to Indianapolis's 2.2%. So can safely rule out both the education system (Baltimore's is better funded than Carmel's) and unemployment (Baltimore and Indianapolis are comparable), so what does that leave? Housing? Is there a systemic problem with Baltimore's housing that makes it impossible for ANY of Baltimore's 27 schools to have attainment in math or literacy?
This isn't a jobs problem, and this isn't a school spending or school funding problem. There's a different fundamental problem.
Josh wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:39 pmSo what's missing here? The money is there, the staffing levels are there, and the things like buildings and facilities are too.
What you are missing is that Baltimore is one of the poorest cities in the country and poverty exacerbates every social problem from youth violence to educational attainment. As the article I cited from today about Omaha noted:
"It really comes back to those poverty issues -- housing, unemployment, education," he told ABC News. "We really have gone upstream to address those issues, while also building better communication channels with the police department."
The take-home message from Omaha? "Nothing stops a bullet like a job"
...
As I just documented, the public school system is providing a massive amount of jobs there, 10,000 to be specific, and over 1600 of these are $100k+ jobs. There are fewer than 8 students for each staff member.
Now you are pivoting and saying that a very poorly performing school system can be blamed on "poverty". Well, pray tell, Ken, what can be done about poverty? Obviously spending a lot of money on schools, school employee salaries, administrators, teachers, and school buildings doesn't budge things one inch.
Baltimore doesn't have high unemployment (3.1%), comparable to Indianapolis's 2.2%. So can safely rule out both the education system (Baltimore's is better funded than Carmel's) and unemployment (Baltimore and Indianapolis are comparable), so what does that leave? Housing? Is there a systemic problem with Baltimore's housing that makes it impossible for ANY of Baltimore's 27 schools to have attainment in math or literacy?
This isn't a jobs problem, and this isn't a school spending or school funding problem. There's a different fundamental problem.
Like I wrote many pages previously (and provided lots of supporting data) school violence is more closely correlated with poverty than anything else. Not race, not setting (urban/suburban/rural), and not diversity. It is poverty that leads to every manner of poor outcome for youth from violence to poor educational outcomes. The second most correlative factor for deadly youth violence is easy access to firearms.
So if you want to fix schools or fix school violence, or crime in general, then you have to tackle poverty. You don't believe me? Do a correlation between poverty rates or median income and school violence or educational outcomes and see what you get.
And the 3.1% unemployment rate for Baltimore represents the 3.1% who have have filed for unemployment and/or are actively seeking work. Aimless teens and young adults who don't fit those categories are not considered part of the labor force and not considered unemployed even though they are jobless.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Deputies arrived at the school about 10:15 a.m. to find the teaching assistant “on the ground with severe injuries after an unprovoked attack by a male student.”
“The student stated that he was upset because the victim took his Nintendo Switch away from him during class,” the sheriff’s office reported.
“On surveillance footage .... the student who is approximately (6 feet, 6 inches tall) and 270 pounds, is shown walking fast toward the victim and pushing the victim several feet, knocking her to the school floor, which knocked her unconscious. The student is then shown kicking and punching the unconscious victim several times in the back and head.”
Must be some algorithm that has determined that the public is paying attention to this topic, and is magnifying the profile of these accounts.
I think it’s not a bad deal to stop schooling at an age where young men are more powerful than the teachers. Maybe the old way of getting out at 8th grade and learning to work with other adult men actually has some upsides.
Deputies arrived at the school about 10:15 a.m. to find the teaching assistant “on the ground with severe injuries after an unprovoked attack by a male student.”
“The student stated that he was upset because the victim took his Nintendo Switch away from him during class,” the sheriff’s office reported.
“On surveillance footage .... the student who is approximately (6 feet, 6 inches tall) and 270 pounds, is shown walking fast toward the victim and pushing the victim several feet, knocking her to the school floor, which knocked her unconscious. The student is then shown kicking and punching the unconscious victim several times in the back and head.”
Must be some algorithm that has determined that the public is paying attention to this topic, and is magnifying the profile of these accounts.
I simply don’t believe the cause of this is “poverty”. (Can people in the throes of poverty afford an expensive video game system?)
Many people have been very poor yet did not have 0% attainment rates in math and literacy. Ken’s explanation is not sufficient. Baltimore has been poor for a long time, yet the schools used to be a lot better.
Ken wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 10:54 pmLike I wrote many pages previously (and provided lots of supporting data) school violence is more closely correlated with poverty than anything else. Not race, not setting (urban/suburban/rural), and not diversity. It is poverty that leads to every manner of poor outcome for youth from violence to poor educational outcomes. The second most correlative factor for deadly youth violence is easy access to firearms.
No it isn’t. Poverty used to be worse yet schools used to be better.
Firearms have nothing to do with it. Firearms have been a staple in America for a long time, and America used to be a lot poorer, too. And Maryland and Baltimore have strict gun laws. (These laws however are not enforced, just like how laws against riding unregistered off road vehicles without insurance on city streets aren’t enforced either.)
So if you want to fix schools or fix school violence, or crime in general, then you have to tackle poverty. You don't believe me? Do a correlation between poverty rates or median income and school violence or educational outcomes and see what you get.
OK. Tell us how to “tackle poverty” then. Note that you can’t say “better education” - you just told me poverty means we’ll have terrible schools, so something else has to be changed. What do you propose?
And the 3.1% unemployment rate for Baltimore represents the 3.1% who have have filed for unemployment and/or are actively seeking work. Aimless teens and young adults who don't fit those categories are not considered part of the labor force and not considered unemployed even though they are jobless.
Whose fault is that? Maybe they should go try to get jobs?
If you’re telling me poverty is a problem, unemployment is 3.1%, then the only reason anyone is “jobless” is because they simply don’t want to work. Perhaps when people refuse to work, they become poor.
Deputies arrived at the school about 10:15 a.m. to find the teaching assistant “on the ground with severe injuries after an unprovoked attack by a male student.”
“The student stated that he was upset because the victim took his Nintendo Switch away from him during class,” the sheriff’s office reported.
“On surveillance footage .... the student who is approximately (6 feet, 6 inches tall) and 270 pounds, is shown walking fast toward the victim and pushing the victim several feet, knocking her to the school floor, which knocked her unconscious. The student is then shown kicking and punching the unconscious victim several times in the back and head.”
Must be some algorithm that has determined that the public is paying attention to this topic, and is magnifying the profile of these accounts.
Those sorts of things are horrible stories. But to actually understand something you have to look at data trends and causes. Is school violence getting worse or not? What are the root causes? What approaches and solutions have proven most effective in other districts, cities, states, or even other countries?
Because honestly you can make anecdotes say anything you want. If you want to condemn homeschooling you can find hundreds of examples of horrifically abusive homeschooling parents. I have actually had students who were removed from horrific home situations where they were being homeschooled.
If you want to condemn conservative churches you can find any number of horrific anecdotes of terrible sexual abuse in those churches. There is even a podcast documenting horrific abuse in the Amish world.
It is an enormous country of 330 million people with near instant social media access to every anecdote or even that ever happens. So you can make any argument you want with horrific anecdotes from the news.
None of that really means anything you have to step back and look dispassionately at an issue. Are schools more violent today? Does homeschooling lead to child abuse? Is there an epidemic of sexual abuse in the Amish and plain community? Maybe all of those things are true. Maybe none of them are. But shocking anecdotes really don't tell you much of anything in a country this large.
As best as I can tell, we had a long slow decline in youth violence for much of the 2000s and are now experiencing a recent spike that is most likely pandemic related. We are probably suffering the consequences of leaving schools closed for far too long after vaccines became available and for doing a poor job of responding to the pandemic in general. Especially for the poorer segments of society that didn't have the same resources as the middle class and wealthy. There is plenty of blame to go around. The question is, are we seeing some sort of fundamental societal change, or is this a temporary blip that we will get through. I honestly don't know the answer. But either way there is a lot of work to be done.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
RZehr wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 12:02 am
I think it’s not a bad deal to stop schooling at an age where young men are more powerful than the teachers.
Maybe the old way of getting out at 8th grade and learning to work with other adult men actually has some upsides.
^^1 size does not fit all, this is where big gov fails.
Beyond elementary school, some students are taller, more powerful, faster than their teachers.
This is why it’s imperative to teach respect for others, no matter age, size, ability, etc., from earliest years. It begins in toddler years in homes. A lot of this must be learned BEFORE entering any school system. Then reinforced - for life.
Not all students need to go to college, not all need a H.S. diploma. But the big government machine demands it.
In the case of the teacher’s aide who was beaten - eerily similar beat-down style with these 2 “teens,” both used full-force unrestrained pummeling with closed fists, one victim was a little girl, the other a young woman. Both were attempted murder.
In the video below, what proof is there the attacker was a teen? i viewed a few times, no indication this was a teen.
No details available. It’s important to question. With so many undocumented students, how is proof of age determined?!
i worry about full on adults claiming to be teens - there are terrific benefits+protections for minors. temptation.
The horrifying video:
Daytona Beach News-Journal / “Student attacks Matanzas High School teacher's aide who took his Nintendo Switch” / 3:32min
Daily Mail / ‘This is NOT this child's fault. He is NOT a threat':
Mental health advocate launches defense of 6'6" thug, 17, who had to be dragged off unconscious female teaching aide who he knocked out for confiscating his Nintendo Switch
Sue Urban, who has a special needs stepson at the school, said the child, 17, of Palm Coast, should have been taken to a mental health facility, not jail
'This is not just a thug,' she told DailyMail.com. 'People need to be educated on children that have ESE [Exceptional Student Education]'
The child severely beat a teaching aide on Tuesday after she took his Nintendo Switch console away. He has been charged with aggravated battery https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -aide.html
.. However, many do not agree with Urban's position.
Kimberly Rosania told DailyMail.com that 'one of the reasons I’m being so vocal is [their identities have] not been released. I care more about whether an innocent woman than I do a predator.'
She also claimed in a Facebook post that the school board 'defended this behavior and this animal.'
'Claiming his disabilities are and should keep him protected, this is insanity!
If he was not stable enough to value human life over a $300.00 video game why was he among innocent lives to begin with?
Why were those lives less valuable than his education? This a broken system!'
Another woman, Karen Puca, said the video was 'concerning' and said she would 'love to hear how the MHS leadership is handling such nonsense' as several have reported there were more fights this week.
Urban confirmed to DailyMail.com that a lot of fights happen at the school and that the school's leadership needs to do better.
Again, before charges are considered, i hope there is serious investigation into whether this is a teen/minor, or an adult imposter.
To victims and their loved ones, “statistics showing violence is rare” will fall on deaf ears. For victims, it’s 100%.
This is where big government fails, because, OF COURSE they rely on stats to set policy. This is a system failure.
The little girl and this young woman are fortunate to be alive. They received no mercy.
i understand some children-teens are unusually big+muscular.
however, presently, U.S. schools are flooded with undocumented students that could create a magnet for abuse of the system.
students, teachers, admin, staff deserve to be protected; the system deserves to be respected.
RZehr wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 12:02 am
I think it’s not a bad deal to stop schooling at an age where young men are more powerful than the teachers.
Maybe the old way of getting out at 8th grade and learning to work with other adult men actually has some upsides.
Arkansas Gov. Sarah Sanders Just Signed A Law That Will Roll Back Child Labor Protections
The governor’s office called the work permit process “an arbitrary burden,” but the federal solicitor of labor said children shouldn’t be allowed to work dangerous jobs, “full stop.” https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/pa ... s-rollback
RZehr wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 12:02 am
I think it’s not a bad deal to stop schooling at an age where young men are more powerful than the teachers.
Maybe the old way of getting out at 8th grade and learning to work with other adult men actually has some upsides.
Arkansas Gov. Sarah Sanders Just Signed A Law That Will Roll Back Child Labor Protections
The governor’s office called the work permit process “an arbitrary burden,” but the federal solicitor of labor said children shouldn’t be allowed to work dangerous jobs, “full stop.” https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/pa ... s-rollback
My grandpa worked full time at age 12. He was a fully formed adult by age 15… and he did very dangerous work.
