Excessive violence in schools

[Josh]

Oh, and that new $43 million pool they are building? It will be the SECOND pool at that high school. By the way, how many Olympic size natatoriums do the Baltimore public schools have? And, of course, none this spending is counted in that $10,000 per student cost you cited because it is capital expenditures not operating costs. But OK, keep telling us how it is Baltimore that is spending more on school construction and upgrades than Carmel.

So what are you saying? That in order to not have violence, frequent classroom disruptions, and 0% of pupils at grade level in math in 23 schools (up from 17 schools in 2017), it's necessary to... build two swimming pools?

Expensive facilities are not needed to teach math.

Also, wealthy districts like Carmel also run big education foundations which are basically endowment funds through which they fund all kinds of grants that are "off the books" so to speak because it is charitable donations from local companies and individuals. A PTA on steroids so to speak. That is another common way that wealthy districts spend more money than poorer ones. It is basically like a university endowment but for a public school district that operates completely separate from the regular taxes and operating budget.

Still not sure what you're getting at here.

Baltimore has a budget that is twice that of Carmel's per student. That money has to come from somewhere, and is indeed paid with taxes paid for by the wealthy in the city (and the state, and also from federal funds). Carmel is making do with half of what Baltimore has.

Yes, it's true that the members of the community have decided to donate funds to build facilities to the school. There is nothing stopping parents in Baltimore from doing the same thing. It just appears that the people there have other priorities for how to spend their money than spending it on improving their public schools. Maybe they feel like it would be a waste of money due to corrupt, wasteful school administration?

[Josh]

Here's an example of how a parent in Baltimore feels; all she is asking is for her child to be held back to an earlier grade so he can learn to read. He's in 4th grade now and still can't read.

A Baltimore City mother is calling on someone, anyone, to fix city schools. And she says major changes need to happen now, or she’s leaving.

“There’s nothing up there for them. Nothing. They go there to get babysit for eight hours and come home,” said Nichelle Watkins, the mother of a Baltimore City student. “I feel like they don’t care. It’s not their children; they don’t care.”

Watkins is exhausted after years of pleading for help from Baltimore City Public Schools.

“Look around, I’m in public housing,” she said. “I can’t afford no thousand-dollar tutor from Sylvan. But that’s what he needs, a tutor.”

Her son is in fourth grade at Johnston Square Elementary. For years, she says, she’s been asking the school system to hold her son back to give him time to learn the material instead of pushing him through the grades. Five months ago, in October, she even wrote Project Baltimore asking for help, saying her son is not getting the education he needs.

“He can’t even read he’s in the fourth grade,” Watkins told Project Baltimore. “How is he supposed to be productive if he can’t read?”

This is a school system that is good at spending money (four grades means they've already blown through over $80,000 on this student), but not very good at all at doing basic things like teaching reading or arithmetic. It seems the need here is not for rich people to donate money to build swimming pools, but for the school administration and teachers to do, well, things that Amish girls with 8th grade educations and no training get up and do successfully every day. Baltimore public school staff with their master's degrees and billion-dollar budget should be able to do this.

Watkins told Project Baltimore she has no hope the school system will ever improve. Her plan is to continue working and save money. As soon as she can afford it, she says, she’s leaving this city.

So, what do you prescribe here, Ken? Relocate the entire population of Baltimore to Carmel?

[Ken]

Oh, and that new $43 million pool they are building? It will be the SECOND pool at that high school. By the way, how many Olympic size natatoriums do the Baltimore public schools have? And, of course, none this spending is counted in that $10,000 per student cost you cited because it is capital expenditures not operating costs. But OK, keep telling us how it is Baltimore that is spending more on school construction and upgrades than Carmel.

So what are you saying? That in order to not have violence, frequent classroom disruptions, and 0% of pupils at grade level in math in 23 schools (up from 17 schools in 2017), it's necessary to... build two swimming pools?

Expensive facilities are not needed to teach math.

Also, wealthy districts like Carmel also run big education foundations which are basically endowment funds through which they fund all kinds of grants that are "off the books" so to speak because it is charitable donations from local companies and individuals. A PTA on steroids so to speak. That is another common way that wealthy districts spend more money than poorer ones. It is basically like a university endowment but for a public school district that operates completely separate from the regular taxes and operating budget.

Still not sure what you're getting at here.

Baltimore has a budget that is twice that of Carmel's per student. That money has to come from somewhere, and is indeed paid with taxes paid for by the wealthy in the city (and the state, and also from federal funds). Carmel is making do with half of what Baltimore has.

Yes, it's true that the members of the community have decided to donate funds to build facilities to the school. There is nothing stopping parents in Baltimore from doing the same thing. It just appears that the people there have other priorities for how to spend their money than spending it on improving their public schools. Maybe they feel like it would be a waste of money due to corrupt, wasteful school administration?

I didn't bring up either Baltimore or Carmel. You and Temp did. I'm just pointing out that per-pupil operations spending is not a legitimate comparison because there are so many other factors involved in school funding that are not counted in such an equation. Carmel actually has 5 separate funding pools for education, only one of which is counted in that figure.

If you honestly think there are not egregious disparities between rich and poor schools in this country than you have not been paying attention and you haven't visited very many schools.

[Ken]

Meanwhile, how about some actual discussion about how violence can be reduced.

Here is how one Republican-run city accomplished it. This article is from Today's ABC news.

How one city cut gun violence in half and may become a model around the country
Omaha, Nebraska, has seen a marked decrease in shootings.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/omaha-nebrask ... d=96799185

While many lawmakers debate various solutions -- restrictions on firearms, increased mental health funding, investment for youth -- ABC News recently talked to community leaders in Omaha, Nebraska, where officials have seen a steady drop in reported gun violence over the past 15 years.

Police and advocates attribute some of that to Omaha 360 -- an initiative started in 2009 by the Empowerment Network that involves nonprofits, neighborhood associations, churches and local law enforcement.

Omaha 360's strategy is "collaboration, prevention, intervention, enforcement, reentry and support services," said Willie Barney, CEO and founder of the Empowerment Network. Barney said the program began as a small initiative with seven people, some from the Empowerment Network and others working for the city.

Omaha 360 is focused on addressing immediate threats of gun violence as well as the underlying issues that contribute to it.

"In all of our areas, whether it's education, violence prevention, housing, employment -- we identify agencies, organizations, churches, neighborhood groups that are working in that particular area, we bring them together [and] identify what the strengths are," Barney said.

A main component, according to Barney, is regularly connecting with the community and listening to input. Every Wednesday, Omaha 360 hosts an hour-long public forum with an update from law enforcement and community partners.

The Empowerment Network and Omaha 360 also focus on reentry programs and employment opportunities for young people through initiatives like "Step Up Omaha!" that help 14-21-year-olds find jobs and work experience opportunities, according to the Empowerment Network.

Lack of employment was a top issue among young people that the group spoke with, Barney said, especially during the summer months.

"We've seen that given the opportunity, they will maximize that opportunity," he said. "We just need more of that."

"It really comes back to those poverty issues -- housing, unemployment, education," he told ABC News. "We really have gone upstream to address those issues, while also building better communication channels with the police department."

The take-home message from Omaha? "Nothing stops a bullet like a job"

Oddly, corporal punishment, harsher sentences, and more youth prisons wasn't part of the formula.

[ohio jones]

Carmel is a school district with 15 schools and 16,395 students

The Carmel HS that Temp referenced above? They are currently spending $133 million just for upgrades to that one single high school including $20 million for remodeled performing arts upgrades, $43 million for a new Olympic size natatorium (pool) ...

Oh, and that new $43 million pool they are building? It will be the SECOND pool at that high school.

Carmel actually has 5 separate funding pools for education, only one of which is counted in that figure.

But they don't yet have an Olympic size funding pool at each building, so maybe they aren't done spending yet.

[Josh]

I didn't bring up either Baltimore or Carmel. You and Temp did. I'm just pointing out that per-pupil operations spending is not a legitimate comparison because there are so many other factors involved in school funding that are not counted in such an equation. Carmel actually has 5 separate funding pools for education, only one of which is counted in that figure.

If you honestly think there are not egregious disparities between rich and poor schools in this country than you have not been paying attention and you haven't visited very many schools.

OK, let's dig a little deeper into how Baltimore public schools are run.

They have a little over 10,000 employees. Of these, more than 1600 are making over $100k a year. I think most of us would agree that anything over $100k is "well compensated".

Their student enrolment is around 77k. That's 8 students per staff member. In my opinion, that should be PLENTY of staff (earning good salaries) to ensure adequate instruction, classroom discipline, and helping students who are falling behind.

So what's missing here? The money is there, the staffing levels are there, and the things like buildings and facilities are too.

[temporal1]

.. while also building better communication channels with the police department."
The take-home message from Omaha? "Nothing stops a bullet like a job"

police are part of the formula.

[Ken]

So what's missing here? The money is there, the staffing levels are there, and the things like buildings and facilities are too.

What you are missing is that Baltimore is one of the poorest cities in the country and poverty exacerbates every social problem from youth violence to educational attainment. As the article I cited from today about Omaha noted:

"It really comes back to those poverty issues -- housing, unemployment, education," he told ABC News. "We really have gone upstream to address those issues, while also building better communication channels with the police department."

The take-home message from Omaha? "Nothing stops a bullet like a job"

[RZehr]

Maybe the more schools focus on LGBTQIAPK+ and other woke ideologies, they stop doing so well in other critical school matters.

[Ken]

.. while also building better communication channels with the police department."
The take-home message from Omaha? "Nothing stops a bullet like a job"

police are part of the formula.

Of course they are. It would be absurd to think otherwise.