Excessive violence in schools

Things that are not part of politics happening presently and how we approach or address it as Anabaptists.
temporal1

Re: Excessive violence in schools

Post by temporal1 »

.. There are good people in public education ..
so true.
failed systems, bad politics hurts all.

i have numbers of teachers/counselors in my family/extended family. i encouraged our children to teach when they were in college, i suggested it, anyway. two very different students, one answer: No way. they said they knew no others choosing teaching.

my dear mil graduated hs early, she began teaching at age 16 in a one room schoolhouse. some of her students were older/bigger than she. they did not harm her. these were Depression years. poverty to the max. she taught herself tailoring, she became a wiz at taking old clothes, remaking them, so she would have clothes to wear! no patterns!

she lived at home, her meager income went to help her family. these people put us to shame.

she continued to teach until retirement. she added ed until she obtained a college degree. heavily invested.

learning and teaching runs deep in U.S. psyche.

since the 60’s, politicians have ruined public ed.
teachers were too nice.

they allowed self-serving politicians to dump every adult failure onto their shoulders and unprepared students’ shoulders to “fix” then they walked away and went on to their next project. it’s too much.

what other group of workers would have allowed such massive interference into their occupations as teachers/schools did, and continue to do?! lots of people think nothing of expecting schools to be the cure-all/catch-all for all of society’s woes.

when i think about it, it’s WHACKED.

boundaries need to be established, different area populations/cultures need different responses.
what’s currently coming out of the DOE and the White House should be criminalized. Betsy DV was incompetent, these guys are far worse than incompetent. teachers+schools need to draw a line in the sand: BACK OFF.

labeling Josh and others heartless is not a constructive response. ignoring/disrespecting his intended OP is not constructive.
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Josh

Re: Excessive violence in schools

Post by Josh »

Szdfan,
Earlier on in this thread, I asked what nuts and bolts things Coconut Palm could have done to prevent this attack and I don't think I've gotten a substantial answer because I don't think anyone here really knows. This isn't a discussion about what actually can be done. It's just people yelling about politics.
I listed a few failures BEFORE the brutal attack. Here’s what could be done differently.

One of them would have been for the administration to take seriously the parents complaining about bullying.

The next thing would be not to try to put 15 year olds with questionable behaviour in the same settings at 9 year olds.

Next thing? Enact disciplinary measures (it’s clear there were none, zero) for milder offences. There are lots of things short of an arrest for a violent offence, and I bet this wasn’t these 15 year olds’ first offence of any kind.

But overall, younger children ought to be protected, instead of wringing one’s hands about older people who choose to be violent. And yes, I believe in agency. I also believe violent sociopaths often don’t misbehave if they know there will be serious consequences. They often respond quite well to corporal punishment and incarceration but it has to be real, not just an empty threat. Overall our society is trending towards complete lawlessness out of a fear of punishing violent sociopaths.
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Josh

Re: Excessive violence in schools

Post by Josh »

Here's another example of the failing public schools in America and their refusal to do anything about violent, disruptive students:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/art ... 775257.php
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temporal1

Re: Excessive violence in schools

Post by temporal1 »

Josh wrote: ↑Sun Feb 19, 2023 3:36 pm Here's another example of the failing public schools in America and their refusal to do anything about violent, disruptive students.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/art ... 775257.php
i wonder how much longer before the U.S. is no longer viewed as a desirable place to move.
reports like these are not isolated.

most immigrants are not lawless, they understand fair laws protect and provide opportunity.
no one wants to jump from the frying pan into the fire.

as i drove back+forth to the medical clinic Friday, i noticed my historically thriving+healthy nearby community is looking more+more like poor Chicago neighborhoods, mj shops, smoke shops, gambling .. it filled me with grief. some years ago, Chicago politicians began cheerleading to make Illinois centers for abortion, gambling, drugs. here.it.is. :( here.it.is. :( crime. violent crime.
not just in larger urban areas.

i don’t describe how bad it is to my family. i pray they won’t experience this or worse, it’s not looking solid.
i don’t ask them to move home. altho that is my greatest wish.

in the past, our county did better than others when unemployment/inflation, etc., would hit.
between the university and hospitals, there was a protective base to hedge against bad times.

well. no more. erudite politicians decided all will share gutters equally. they’ve made a lot of headway.
are they proud?

how long until there are cholera outbreaks?

Homeless in O’Hare
https://www.fox32chicago.com/video/1181117
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barnhart
Posts: 7751
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:59 pm
Location: Brooklyn
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: Excessive violence in schools

Post by barnhart »

Szdfan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 7:31 am
Outrage is easy. Actually changing things is hard.
Well said.
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temporal1

Re: Excessive violence in schools

Post by temporal1 »

barnhart wrote: ↑Sun Feb 19, 2023 11:15 pm
Szdfan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 7:31 am Outrage is easy. Actually changing things is hard.
Well said.
it’s important not to feel hopeless, helpless, defeated before beginning.
this is where a lot can be lost.

for big changes, appreciation of all efforts, small and large, count. prayers count.

one important change is for those who vote to become informed and stop voting for bad policies. stop being in denial about “that will never happen.” lots of voters have no idea what-all they’re voting for - until it lands on their doorstep. then, outrage.

in olden days, politicians lied more.
today they’re more apt to just openly describe their plans! believe them, and don’t vote for them.
it’s amazing how many people listen, refuse to believe, vote out of habit. (then get mad when they see results.)

it requires sustained consistent effort (and prayer) more than “hard” work.
in our instant gratification mentality, sustained consistent effort (can seem like) a dinosaur.

most of all, don’t lose heart. don’t feel defeated.

1 Cor 15:57
https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/15-57.htm
Where, O Death, is Your Victory?
…56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

57But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!

58Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast and immovable.
Always excel in the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.…
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Jazman

Re: Excessive violence in schools

Post by Jazman »

Related but a different perspective... last evening our church heard from a family that lives in our nearest major city (refugee per capita capital of the US btw...find out who that is) and this couple works closely with refugee's/asylum seekers etc. They didn't go into detail, but they talked about how all the new arrivals here (Christian or otherwise) were exceedingly grateful for public schools they could now send their children to for an education which would be far better than the nothing they had had before they came... ie the urban public school is an answer to their prayers...
I say this not to excuse or overlook real harms happening in real places (I'm sure those refugee/immigrant families know of some problems too and are trying to address them too) But, I wonder if we tried on some other shoes and walked in them awhile, maybe our perspective on some of these things would change...
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Soloist

Re: Excessive violence in schools

Post by Soloist »

Flip side is that we warned the Russian Baptist what would happen in Oregon, and it basically did. Different mindset, urban versus rural but their urban was a village, not a city.
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Josh

Re: Excessive violence in schools

Post by Josh »

Jazman wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 6:56 am Related but a different perspective... last evening our church heard from a family that lives in our nearest major city (refugee per capita capital of the US btw...find out who that is) and this couple works closely with refugee's/asylum seekers etc. They didn't go into detail, but they talked about how all the new arrivals here (Christian or otherwise) were exceedingly grateful for public schools they could now send their children to for an education which would be far better than the nothing they had had before they came... ie the urban public school is an answer to their prayers...
I say this not to excuse or overlook real harms happening in real places (I'm sure those refugee/immigrant families know of some problems too and are trying to address them too) But, I wonder if we tried on some other shoes and walked in them awhile, maybe our perspective on some of these things would change...
In the article I shared, the experience in San Francisco public schools was so bad that the pupil and refugee wanted to return to an active war zone.

Of course, if you are in an area with conservative government and “good” schools, that might not be the same experience.
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temporal1

Re: Excessive violence in schools

Post by temporal1 »

Jazman:
.. But, I wonder if we tried on some other shoes and walked in them awhile, maybe our perspective on some of these things would change...
^^This is proven, classic wisdom from old, beyond debate; however, the way it’s used here comes across as patronizing, as if use of the word, “we” actually means “you.” Patronizing is a theme sometimes brought to this forum.
Josh wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 8:16 am In the article I shared, the experience in San Francisco public schools was so bad that the pupil and refugee wanted to return to an active war zone. :(

Of course, if you are in an area with conservative government and “good” schools, that might not be the same experience.
Josh is pointing out reality without exaggeration. Reality that is increasing, not being effectively mitigated, no matter how all us ordinary folks on the ground attempt to adjust to reality, meet needs of real live people thrown at us by aloof ideologues, untouched by their own decisions.

The gratitude of migrants is long established in the U.S., from the start. No migrants dream of landing in “worse” than where they hailed from.

In history, most/all migrant groups had a rough time of it until they found their way. It’s a wonky fantasy to think migrants were always welcomed with open arms, the red carpet laid out waiting for them. The early pioneers were met with mixed responses, none were met with gov benefits, free education, running water .. no matter how hard their lives were in the old country, the new country didn’t even offer that. They started from scratch, not even knowing how to feed themselves. They faced starvation and disease that is now all but forgotten.

The U.S. migrant history is very interesting. The vast majority had a hard time finding their place, living with hope, in time, a place would be found. The “better” wasn’t a tangible package given, it was HOPE that with nothing material, better would be ahead.

Hope is key.
Interesting how, with hope, people endure terrific challenges. Without hope, the entitled fail.
Much of it is perspective, as Jman references above.

In truth, much of the crime happening today is committed by entitled people who have no appreciation for what they have.
They have enough, more than enough, but want “more.” They are taught many things, not taught about Jesus. Thus, they have no idea that “more” will not satisfy their poverty of spirit. It’s not possible. Gucci won’t do it.

i think it was appleman who described how in contemporary times, ordinary people enjoy luxuries former kings in history knew nothing of! There’s no guarantee it will continue to be true. At present rate of decline, nothing can be taken for granted.

Honestly, with the filth now normalized to an extent once no one would have believed, i wonder how long until cholera is seen in the U.S. At present rate of decline, nothing can be taken for granted.

Excess violence in schools = poverty of spirit.

As a Christian, i believe, recognized or not, Jesus is Hope.
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