Excessive violence in schools

[Josh]

If you saw two older white males (14 or 15 years old) beating a younger black female (9 years old), would you consider the attack racially motivated or not?

Not without more information, no. Not everything is about race or is racially motivated. Kids bully each other and fight for hundreds of reasons, most of them having nothing to do with race.

I simply don't believe that. Sorry.

Burying your head in the sand about racialised violence will do nothing to bring about a more equitable and just society, and indeed, this kind of chronic denial there is a problem simply means most parents just pack up and go to another school district where they feel more welcome. And then liberals decry how "segregated" society is. Well, that's what happens when you don't actually solve the problem and just tell the parents they should put up with it.

"Kids bully each other and fight for hundreds of reasons" is not really a valid explanation for why 15 year old males are beating a 9 year old female child. That's not really normal at all.

[Ken]

If you saw two older white males (14 or 15 years old) beating a younger black female (9 years old), would you consider the attack racially motivated or not?

Not without more information, no. Not everything is about race or is racially motivated. Kids bully each other and fight for hundreds of reasons, most of them having nothing to do with race.

I simply don't believe that. Sorry.

Burying your head in the sand about racialised violence will do nothing to bring about a more equitable and just society, and indeed, this kind of chronic denial there is a problem simply means most parents just pack up and go to another school district where they feel more welcome. And then liberals decry how "segregated" society is. Well, that's what happens when you don't actually solve the problem and just tell the parents they should put up with it.

"Kids bully each other and fight for hundreds of reasons" is not really a valid explanation for why 15 year old males are beating a 9 year old female child. That's not really normal at all.

A 15 year old beating up a 9 year old in a school is an exceedingly rare thing regardless of race. That is a 9th grader beating up a 3rd grader which frankly just doesn't normally happen. I don't have any statistics but I would suggest we are talking about one in a thousand cases, or maybe one in a 100,000 cases. I would suggest that the vast majority of cases of bullying and school violence are kids who are the same age or close to it. It is usually between kids in the same class who know each other. So this bus video from Miami is frankly not remotely representative of the normal sort of school violence and bullying that schools usually deal with.

And yes, kids get into fights or get bullied for a bazillion different reasons, most of which have nothing to do with race. These days if we are talking 15 year olds it is probably something rude that one student said about another on social media. Or something one kid said to another about a third and it got back to the third kid who took offense. And actually there is far more bullying of LGBT kids than kids of different races. Even that isn't really very common but is starting to become more so because kids are picking it up from their bigoted parents. We are in the middle of an anti-trans and anti-gay hysteria that is mostly bigoted adults but is starting to filter down to their kids in some cases. Although most kids do know better and are mostly just embarrassed about their parents when they show up to get hysterical at school board meetings and such. But a few do pick it up from their parents.

Today in class I actually had to step in and deal with a couple of white kids who were bullying a black kid. Not because he was black, but because he was gay. And no, they weren't beating on him. They were a row behind him and making homophobic comments under their breath to each other just loud enough that he could overhear. He came up and told me so I had to go deal with it. No doubt they picked up their bigotry from their parents as well.

[temporal1]

Josh:
.. is not really a valid explanation for why 15 year old males are beating a 9 year old female child.
That's not really normal at all.

i daresay it’s not normal anywhere on earth.
some behaviors reflect antisocial behavioral traits that might lead to lifelong (crimes).

the video shows the teen repeatedly pounding on the much younger/smaller child. that could be complete lack of self-control, rage, both, and/or more.

i doubt it has anything at all to do with the child/victim. the teen may be a walking time bomb.
no matter what the child did or said: no excuse.

“15-year-old criminally charged for viral school bus beating of nine-year-old”
https://www.bizpacreview.com/2023/02/08 ... d-1331305/

i’m not sure school busses regularly have mixed-age students? i wouldn’t think so.

in my area, public schools are doing more+more to keep grades separate during the school day. esp at the beginning of the school year. public school freshmen do not belong with public school seniors.

in the Catholic elementary school my grdaughter attended, they encourage families, family involvement, and thinking of the school as extended family. they took formal measures for older students to interact with younger students in both responsibility and leadership roles. with good leadership/oversight, i think it’s valuable. i wouldn’t want it in public schools, esp not in today’s climate.

older children may not have good judgment about what’s appropriate for younger children. too many teachers are clueless, too.

- - - - - - -

just wait.
once pros get involved in this case, the teen’s lawyers may sue the battered child. it was her fault!
that’s how upside-down times are.

[temporal1]

Charges of attempted murder would be warranted.

[Szdfan]

Again: I don't see anything from the parents that they think the attack was racially motivated.

If you saw two older white males (14 or 15 years old) beating a younger black female (9 years old), would you consider the attack racially motivated or not?

I think someone's argument loses credibility when they start making up quotes. The school never told the parents to enroll their children in a "segregated" school.

[Only an Anz]

Not without more information, no. Not everything is about race or is racially motivated. Kids bully each other and fight for hundreds of reasons, most of them having nothing to do with race.

I simply don't believe that. Sorry.

Burying your head in the sand about racialised violence will do nothing to bring about a more equitable and just society, and indeed, this kind of chronic denial there is a problem simply means most parents just pack up and go to another school district where they feel more welcome. And then liberals decry how "segregated" society is. Well, that's what happens when you don't actually solve the problem and just tell the parents they should put up with it.

"Kids bully each other and fight for hundreds of reasons" is not really a valid explanation for why 15 year old males are beating a 9 year old female child. That's not really normal at all.

A 15 year old beating up a 9 year old in a school is an exceedingly rare thing regardless of race. That is a 9th grader beating up a 3rd grader which frankly just doesn't normally happen. I don't have any statistics but I would suggest we are talking about one in a thousand cases, or maybe one in a 100,000 cases. I would suggest that the vast majority of cases of bullying and school violence are kids who are the same age or close to it. It is usually between kids in the same class who know each other. So this bus video from Miami is frankly not remotely representative of the normal sort of school violence and bullying that schools usually deal with.

And yes, kids get into fights or get bullied for a bazillion different reasons, most of which have nothing to do with race. These days if we are talking 15 year olds it is probably something rude that one student said about another on social media. Or something one kid said to another about a third and it got back to the third kid who took offense. And actually there is far more bullying of LGBT kids than kids of different races. Even that isn't really very common but is starting to become more so because kids are picking it up from their bigoted parents. We are in the middle of an anti-trans and anti-gay hysteria that is mostly bigoted adults but is starting to filter down to their kids in some cases. Although most kids do know better and are mostly just embarrassed about their parents when they show up to get hysterical at school board meetings and such. But a few do pick it up from their parents.

Today in class I actually had to step in and deal with a couple of white kids who were bullying a black kid. Not because he was black, but because he was gay. And no, they weren't beating on him. They were a row behind him and making homophobic comments under their breath to each other just loud enough that he could overhear. He came up and told me so I had to go deal with it. No doubt they picked up their bigotry from their parents as well.

Right. There simply isn't much overlap (if any) between those ages in school. I mean, when I taught middle school some of the kiddos didn't even know where the HS was, let alone get into fights with students whose school was 8+ miles away.

[Josh]

Again: I don't see anything from the parents that they think the attack was racially motivated.

If you saw two older white males (14 or 15 years old) beating a younger black female (9 years old), would you consider the attack racially motivated or not?

I think someone's argument loses credibility when they start making up quotes. The school never told the parents to enroll their children in a "segregated" school.

Here's the original quote:

She told the outlet that school administrators are overwhelmed by spiraling violence inside and around the school — and their response was to advise her to enroll her three children elsewhere.

The heartbroken mom noted her two older kids have also been bullied during their brief time at the school — and counselors and administrators have done nothing to address her complaints.

The subtle message was telling them to go to a "different" school. One where, obviously they would "fit in". Sorry, Szdfan, but these kind of "coded" messages are interpreted as "racist" all the time.

I am quite sceptical when I hear that well-paid, well-funded school adminsitrators (and Miami-Dade is well funded; they have a budget of $7 billion, which is enough to keep one family safe) say they can't do anything about "spiraling violence".

[Josh]

A 15 year old beating up a 9 year old in a school is an exceedingly rare thing regardless of race. That is a 9th grader beating up a 3rd grader which frankly just doesn't normally happen. I don't have any statistics but I would suggest we are talking about one in a thousand cases, or maybe one in a 100,000 cases. I would suggest that the vast majority of cases of bullying and school violence are kids who are the same age or close to it. It is usually between kids in the same class who know each other. So this bus video from Miami is frankly not remotely representative of the normal sort of school violence and bullying that schools usually deal with.

Okay - earlier, you said "kids get beat up all the time". Now you're saying it's actually really rare. So which is it?

Part of my concern wasn't just multiple older males beating up a young child, but also the complete lack of response from the administration, including when they were warned in advance there was a problem with this particular family being targeted.

Today in class I actually had to step in and deal with a couple of white kids who were bullying a black kid. Not because he was black, but because he was gay. And no, they weren't beating on him. They were a row behind him and making homophobic comments under their breath to each other just loud enough that he could overhear. He came up and told me so I had to go deal with it. No doubt they picked up their bigotry from their parents as well.

That's entirely different than a 15 year old beating up someone half their size on the school bus. Words spoken under one's breath are very different from fists punched at someone's head.

Right. There simply isn't much overlap (if any) between those ages in school. I mean, when I taught middle school some of the kiddos didn't even know where the HS was, let alone get into fights with students whose school was 8+ miles away.

Regardless of overlap, the 9 year old child still got violently assaulted. It is really something how quite a few people here are trying to act like (a) this incident didn't really happen, (b) this kind of thing is common and no big deal, and simultaneously (c) this is really rare, almost never happens, thus it isn't a big deal.

These days if we are talking 15 year olds it is probably something rude that one student said about another on social media.

... so you are asserting that a 15 year old got upset about something a 9 year old girl said on social media? And then decided that repeatedly punching her in the head was an appropriate response?

[Ken]

A 15 year old beating up a 9 year old in a school is an exceedingly rare thing regardless of race. That is a 9th grader beating up a 3rd grader which frankly just doesn't normally happen. I don't have any statistics but I would suggest we are talking about one in a thousand cases, or maybe one in a 100,000 cases. I would suggest that the vast majority of cases of bullying and school violence are kids who are the same age or close to it. It is usually between kids in the same class who know each other. So this bus video from Miami is frankly not remotely representative of the normal sort of school violence and bullying that schools usually deal with.

Okay - earlier, you said "kids get beat up all the time". Now you're saying it's actually really rare. So which is it?

Part of my concern wasn't just multiple older males beating up a young child, but also the complete lack of response from the administration, including when they were warned in advance there was a problem with this particular family being targeted.

Today in class I actually had to step in and deal with a couple of white kids who were bullying a black kid. Not because he was black, but because he was gay. And no, they weren't beating on him. They were a row behind him and making homophobic comments under their breath to each other just loud enough that he could overhear. He came up and told me so I had to go deal with it. No doubt they picked up their bigotry from their parents as well.

That's entirely different than a 15 year old beating up someone half their size on the school bus. Words spoken under one's breath are very different from fists punched at someone's head.

Right. There simply isn't much overlap (if any) between those ages in school. I mean, when I taught middle school some of the kiddos didn't even know where the HS was, let alone get into fights with students whose school was 8+ miles away.

Regardless of overlap, the 9 year old child still got violently assaulted. It is really something how quite a few people here are trying to act like (a) this incident didn't really happen, (b) this kind of thing is common and no big deal, and simultaneously (c) this is really rare, almost never happens, thus it isn't a big deal.

These days if we are talking 15 year olds it is probably something rude that one student said about another on social media.

... so you are asserting that a 15 year old got upset about something a 9 year old girl said on social media? And then decided that repeatedly punching her in the head was an appropriate response?

So what are you interested in doing Josh. Endlessly wringing your hands and race-mongering about one specific and very unusual incident on a bus in Miami for which we only have third hand information that may or may not even be accurate?

Or actually having a discussion about the issue of violence in schools? For which we actually have a lot of information?

[Josh]

So what are you interested in doing Josh. Endlessly wringing your hands and race-mongering about one specific and very unusual incident on a bus in Miami for which we only have third hand information that may or may not even be accurate?

Third-hand? We have video of the beatdown. Are you claiming the video is fake?