Excessive violence in schools

[Grace]

I am responding to Josh who asks "what should we do about this" by pointing out that DeSantis is actually the governor of Florida and he claims to be the education governor and has been intervening directly in the public schools in Florida on a vast variety of areas. What has DeSantis done in the area of public education policy in Florida in the past two years?
• He has intervened and overruled the local decisions of school boards and school administrators with respect to COVID measures and attacked students for wearing masks

We now know all the academic and learning losses that occurred by keeping children out of school, when the risk of covid death for healthy children is practically 0.

He has tried to censor teachers and and threaten them with arrest for discussing race or gender in the classroom in ways that he disapproves of
He has threatened school librarians with the same.

That is a partial lie. He introduced a bill that said, “classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

In other words, teachers cannot teach about sexual orientation that is not age and developmentally appropriate for little kids. Should we be teaching little kids about sexual orientation that is meant for older children and adults? Should we be teaching little children about various sex acts between genders?

• He is pushing expansion of charter schools and a new school voucher program in Florida

You said in a prior post that poverty creates more violence in the youths of this country. One of the causes of poverty is lack of good educational opportunities. Why shouldn’t the poor children have the same educational opportunities that the more wealthy children have? Why should the poor children be forced to attend failing schools, all because of their zip code?

• He has intervened numerous times in local school boards to remove school board members he disapproves of and replace them with his own appointees.

Yes DeSantis suspended Broward School Board Members at the recommendations of a Statewide Grand Jury, due to their incompetence, neglect of duty, and misuse of authority. The Grand Jury found that safety-related alarms that could have possibly saved lives at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School were a very low priority for these members. They remained uninstalled at multiple schools. The school board allowed students to be educated in unsafe, aging, decrepit, moldy buildings that were supposed to have been renovated many tears earlier. These board members were also, part of fraud and gross mismanagement.

• And most recently he wants to collect the private menstrual information of every female student athlete in Florida. I'm not making this up.
This is a method to maintain fairness in women’s sports and to keep biological males out of girl’s restrooms and locker rooms. Why should strong athletic girls be denied scholarships, be at risk for injury, have threat of sexual harassment, by having biological males on their sports teams?

This is a method to protect, promote equality and fairness in women’s sports. Why should athletic girls be denied scholarships, be at risk for injury, have threat of sexual harassment, by having biological males on their sports teams? Young women and girls cannot compete fairly against biological males.

[Ken]

Ken,

She told the outlet that school administrators are overwhelmed by spiraling violence inside and around the school — and their response was to advise her to enroll her three children elsewhere.

The heartbroken mom noted her two older kids have also been bullied during their brief time at the school — and counselors and administrators have done nothing to address her complaints.

Not sure what else you think the parents should have done.

Generally speaking, 9 year old girls should be able to go to school without being beaten and punched in the head by a much larger 14 year old male. This girl needed medical attention after the physical abuse & assault.

The parents reached out to responsible parties at the school, who told them “go to another school”.

I think public schools should be available and open to all children, regardless of their race, physical size, or background. But younger children should not be beaten by larger, older males. This is a serious problem, and is not just happening in Miami. This is just an example.

Neither of those quotes are from any of the articles that you cited. You must have found them somewhere else. I'm not doubting their veracity, I just didn't see them in either of the two articles you provided and I read both of them.

Yes, of course kids should be safe when they attend their local schools. And if these quotes are an accurate account of what happened then these school administrators should be fired and a new team brought in to deal with the problem and be given whatever resources they need. Which is actually what happens all the time. When school administrators are not doing their job they need to be replaced.

None of that answers the larger question you raised which is whether school violence is increasing in this country, what kind of patterns is it exhibiting, and what are the most effective ways to deal with the problem. School districts are actually required by law to collect and report this information and had been required to do so since 1964. I provided a snapshot of some of the most current data towards that end above, but it seems that everyone would rather talk about a cell phone video than actual data on school violence.

[Ken]

I am responding to Josh who asks "what should we do about this" by pointing out that DeSantis is actually the governor of Florida and he claims to be the education governor and has been intervening directly in the public schools in Florida on a vast variety of areas. What has DeSantis done in the area of public education policy in Florida in the past two years?
• He has intervened and overruled the local decisions of school boards and school administrators with respect to COVID measures and attacked students for wearing masks

We now know all the academic and learning losses that occurred by keeping children out of school, when the risk of covid death for healthy children is practically 0.

He has tried to censor teachers and and threaten them with arrest for discussing race or gender in the classroom in ways that he disapproves of
He has threatened school librarians with the same.

That is a partial lie. He introduced a bill that said, “classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

In other words, teachers cannot teach about sexual orientation that is not age and developmentally appropriate for little kids. Should we be teaching little kids about sexual orientation that is meant for older children and adults? Should we be teaching little children about various sex acts between genders?

• He is pushing expansion of charter schools and a new school voucher program in Florida

You said in a prior post that poverty creates more violence in the youths of this country. One of the causes of poverty is lack of good educational opportunities. Why shouldn’t the poor children have the same educational opportunities that the more wealthy children have? Why should the poor children be forced to attend failing schools, all because of their zip code?

• He has intervened numerous times in local school boards to remove school board members he disapproves of and replace them with his own appointees.

Yes DeSantis suspended Broward School Board Members at the recommendations of a Statewide Grand Jury, due to their incompetence, neglect of duty, and misuse of authority. The Grand Jury found that safety-related alarms that could have possibly saved lives at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School were a very low priority for these members. They remained uninstalled at multiple schools. The school board allowed students to be educated in unsafe, aging, decrepit, moldy buildings that were supposed to have been renovated many tears earlier. These board members were also, part of fraud and gross mismanagement.

• And most recently he wants to collect the private menstrual information of every female student athlete in Florida. I'm not making this up.
This is a method to maintain fairness in women’s sports and to keep biological males out of girl’s restrooms and locker rooms. Why should strong athletic girls be denied scholarships, be at risk for injury, have threat of sexual harassment, by having biological males on their sports teams?

This is a method to maintain fairness in women’s sports and to keep biological males out of girl’s restrooms and locker rooms. Why should strong athletic girls be denied scholarships, be at risk for injury, have threat of sexual harassment, by having biological males on their sports teams?

You seem to be very misinformed about what is happening in Florida.

First, DeSantis' attempts to censor discussion of race and gender in classrooms extends all the way up to the university level. It isn't limited to K-3 curriculum. He is seeking to strip tenue from and fire university professors who talk about race in university classrooms in ways that he disapproves. And is threatening the same thing at the high school level.

Second, charter schools and vouchers are an entirely different topic that we could spend years on. I only bring them up as another example of how DeSantis is using his position as governor to intervene in local schools and local school districts. I only brought them up as yet another example of it is the STATE under DeSantis that is choosing to lead education policy in Florida and therefore it is entirely appropriate to ask what DeSantis is doing to address school violence if it is the growing problem that Josh claims it is.

Finally, the states attempt to require that all student athletes submit their menstrual information to the state has nothing to do with transgender athletes. By their own words from the article I cited above:

However, the FHSAA wants athletes to turn over the entire form to their schools, arguing that the health information could be useful to coaches if a student athlete is injured and needs urgent care. The digital form would also be kept by a third-party software company, Aktivate, which is not run by a medical-care provider and therefore isn’t bound to or protected by HIPAA laws.

Essentially information about girls menstrual cycles is something that is on the physical exam forms used by many states for student athletes. It is something that they want doctors to ask about when the DOCTOR is making a determination about whether the girl is fit to participate in school athletics. However, in most other states, this information stays with the doctor and within the private medical files of the child. It is NOT something that is shared with the school district or that goes into any sort of statewide database that isn't subject to HIPAA laws. In fact, most other states prohibit the school district from collecting that sort of private medical information.

Florida's claims that coaches need to know the menstrual information of their athletes in case one is injured is the most patently ridiculous thing I have heard in a long time. I was a youth soccer coach for over 15 years from ages 4 all the way up to middle school. And I can promise you that I never needed data on the menstrual cycles of any of my athletes for any reason at all. In other words, they are LYING.

So why does Florida ACTUALLY want to collect this information on every student athlete and put it all into a searchable database that is not subject to HIPAA laws? They aren't saying.

But my larger point stands. DeSantis has chosen to intervene and take over management of the public school system in Florida on a very wide variety of levels. So it is indeed entirely appropriate to lay the issue of school violence at his feet and ask what he is planning to do about it. If this is a failure, it is happening on HIS watch.
'

[Grace]

But my larger point stands. DeSantis has chosen to intervene and take over management of the public school system in Florida on a very wide variety of levels. So it is indeed entirely appropriate to lay the issue of school violence at his feet and ask what he is planning to do about it. If this is a failure, it is happening on HIS watch.

Are you sure you can't find somewhere or somehow to can blame Trump for school violence. After all he lives in Florida.

[temporal1]

A problem facing parents in America who send their children to public schools is that their children may be subjected to senseless violence; for example, this last week a 3rd grade girl was brutally beaten by multiple teenaged boys in a bus. Her 10 year old brother attempted to intervene, which earned him a beating too.

Please exercise discretion before viewing the video in the link below.

https://rivercitypost.org/9-year-old-gi ... orida-bus/

The local CBS affiliate is also reporting:

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/miami/news ... homestead/

The school’s response?

Miami-Dade County Public Schools released the following statement that reads as follows, “The safety and wellbeing of our students is of the utmost importance.

The school district goes to great lengths to promote values of restraint and respect, as well as using social media responsibly. We ask that parents reinforce those principles at home.”

After the beaten children’s parents went to the TV news and the news reported on it, the school district did decide to press charges and arrested the offenders, who were age 14 or older.

I think non-violence is important, but I’m also unwilling to stand idly by when children are being abused. I am also especially disturbed when there is racialised violence. Were these children targeted for violence because of their race? Should children of that race expect to be able to go to school without violence or should they accept being beaten just because of the colour of their skin?

Where is steve’s trainwreck graphic?

Too bad your perfectly valid questions were ignored, replaced with (manic?) rants about “everything/anything” else?
Some topics are doomed on Page 1, right out of the gate.

[Szdfan]

But to a child who is being abused… we do not tell them or their parents, “well, what you need is the perpetrator to receive the gospel”. Dealing with that is the government’s job. In this case the government refused to do anything, until the issue was brought to light by the TV news.

When I think back of my youth days getting beat up was very common and to some degree an accepted norm where I went to school. It was not of media interest. We learned to avoid those who were looking for a fight and there were always those who just wanted to beat up on others for some reason. Sometimes because mom and dad beat on each other. I remember being told to just avoid certain kids that want to do violent things. This was not always possible but most times it was.

I think the affect of TV violence and most board and video games is a cause behind some of this. I don't believe a child can watch and play these games involving violence and it not have some evil affect on them.

I was beaten up a few times at school. The only reason why we are talking about this case is because someone with a cell phone was able to record this and post it on social media. I'm not convinced that schools as a whole are more violent than in the past, but instead that we are more aware when something happens. This is not necessarily a bad thing.

FWIW, this first paragraph is not one I wrote.

Oops! Sorry!

[Ken]

But my larger point stands. DeSantis has chosen to intervene and take over management of the public school system in Florida on a very wide variety of levels. So it is indeed entirely appropriate to lay the issue of school violence at his feet and ask what he is planning to do about it. If this is a failure, it is happening on HIS watch.

Are you sure you can't find somewhere or somehow to can blame Trump for school violence. After all he lives in Florida.

No, Trump never claimed to be the "Education President" like say George W. Bush did. He appointed a completely unqualified billionaire Republican donor to the post of Education Secretary and as far as I know, never thought about it again. An education secretary who, by the way, was completely AWOL during the entire first year of the pandemic during which education was being completely turned upside down. An event which was the biggest disruption to education in over 100 years. And from Betsy DeVos we basically had zero national leadership and mostly just crickets.

But honestly, when you get down to it, Bush and Obama weren't much better. It is a little too early to make a final judgement about Biden's education legacy. But I'm not terribly hopeful.

At best we can say that Trump neglected education policy. But he never claimed Education as his mantle like DeSantis has done. Education is much more of a state than Federal issue in this country anyway.
'

[ohio jones]

The story says it was updated on January 13, 2023 which was 2 weeks ago.

Three weeks by my calendar. What time zone are you in?

[Ken]

The story says it was updated on January 13, 2023 which was 2 weeks ago.

Three weeks by my calendar. What time zone are you in?

You aren't accounting for the leap week

[temporal1]

A report to add details to above:

“DeSantis haters twist AP fact check on menstrual cycle claim to dishonestly smear popular governor”
https://www.bizpacreview.com/2023/02/05 ... r-1330436/