Secret to durable ancient Roman concrete revealed

[barnhart]

I'm making jokes, but I agree with Ken that the "ancient aliens" trope ignores the capabilities of ancient people.

Temporal bigotry, the conviction that what came before was less sophisticated or the result of less capable people. Each time we uncover evidence of capable civilizations of the past, we are surprised by their abilities. This is likely a result of the rapid influx of technology since the industrial revolution, which also colors our value judgements of peoples who experienced that differently. I think people have always been very smart and have always moved around the globe much more than we imagine.

[MaxPC]

Temporal bigotry, the conviction that what came before was less sophisticated or the result of less capable people. Each time we uncover evidence of capable civilizations of the past, we are surprised by their abilities. This is likely a result of the rapid influx of technology since the industrial revolution, which also colors our value judgements of peoples who experienced that differently. I think people have always been very smart and have always moved around the globe much more than we imagine.

I agree. Further, there are periods of great achievements and knowledge that are lost when that civilisation declines and falls. This story is a good illustration of that. When invaders or disruptors destroy the knowledge resources of the previous civilisation, it can take as long as millenia to recover that knowledge; if ever.

Wholesale destruction of a civilisation, whether from within or without, is never a good idea. We would call it "throwing the baby out with the bath water". Transformation of society is a much healthier, though more difficult option: as disciples we are to be light, to be leaven and to be salt.

But then the healthier way is not easy in any area of our lives be it discipleship, diets or exercise.

[Josh]

God saw fit to destroy the Roman civilisation and cultivate Christianity as its replacement. I’d say we got a very good exchange, all things considered.

[MaxPC]

God saw fit to destroy the Roman civilisation and cultivate Christianity as its replacement. I’d say we got a very good exchange, all things considered.

From a spiritual standpoint I would agree. But what of the technological advancements and knowledge that were lost in the wholesale destruction? Hence I see transformation from leavening as something that is more Biblically relevant than wars and destruction.

[Josh]

God saw fit to destroy the Roman civilisation and cultivate Christianity as its replacement. I’d say we got a very good exchange, all things considered.

From a spiritual standpoint I would agree. But what of the technological advancements and knowledge that were lost in the wholesale destruction? Hence I see transformation from leavening as something that is more Biblical relevant than wars and destruction.

The Lord saw fit to leave all those “technological advancements” in the dust.

The Romans used their excellent cement to build a coliseum where all manner of wickedness, murder, and persecution of believers happened. Perhaps the Lord was not pleased.

[MaxPC]

God saw fit to destroy the Roman civilisation and cultivate Christianity as its replacement. I’d say we got a very good exchange, all things considered.

From a spiritual standpoint I would agree. But what of the technological advancements and knowledge that were lost in the wholesale destruction? Hence I see transformation from leavening as something that is more Biblical relevant than wars and destruction.

The Lord saw fit to leave all those “technological advancements” in the dust.

The Romans used their excellent cement to build a coliseum where all manner of wickedness, murder, and persecution of believers happened. Perhaps the Lord was not pleased.

Interesting and yes, a valid viewpoint. I was trying to see it from the Anabaptist perspective of transformation being preferable to war and destruction. Perhaps the gravity of the civilisation's sin was such that even the tech knowledge was misused and therefore rendered tainted and unacceptable. I wonder if that same analogy can be applied to modern internet and technology?

[Ken]

God saw fit to destroy the Roman civilisation and cultivate Christianity as its replacement. I’d say we got a very good exchange, all things considered.

But of course that isn't really what happened.

The western half of the Roman Empire descended into anarchy and the dark ages long after it had become Christian. The collapse of the western empire is usually dated to about 175 years after Constantine.

The eastern half of the Roman Empire lived for another 1000 or so years as the Byzantine Empire until it was destroyed and absorbed by the Ottoman Turks.

[Josh]

From a spiritual standpoint I would agree. But what of the technological advancements and knowledge that were lost in the wholesale destruction? Hence I see transformation from leavening as something that is more Biblical relevant than wars and destruction.

The Lord saw fit to leave all those “technological advancements” in the dust.

The Romans used their excellent cement to build a coliseum where all manner of wickedness, murder, and persecution of believers happened. Perhaps the Lord was not pleased.

Interesting and yes, a valid viewpoint. I was trying to see it from the Anabaptist perspective of transformation being preferable to war and destruction. Perhaps the gravity of the civilisation's sin was such that even the tech knowledge was misused and therefore rendered tainted and unacceptable. I wonder if that same analogy can be applied to modern internet and technology?

Most Anabaptists are very sceptical of technology being a force for good, and generally reject technological “progress”.

Generally speaking Anabaptists would see war and destruction as possibly ordained by God - but not something we should participate in. It is clear that Jesus prophesied the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., for example. But Jesus told his followers to simply flee when they saw that happen.

[MaxPC]

God saw fit to destroy the Roman civilisation and cultivate Christianity as its replacement. I’d say we got a very good exchange, all things considered.

But of course that isn't really what happened.

The western half of the Roman Empire descended into anarchy and the dark ages long after it had become Christian. The collapse of the western empire is usually dated to about 175 years after Constantine.

The eastern half of the Roman Empire lived for another 1000 or so years as the Byzantine Empire until it was destroyed and absorbed by the Ottoman Turks.

Ken: The direction of the dialog here is in the relevancy of destruction vs transformation. It would be good if you were to keep to that direction instead of lecturing others on that which you view as fact.

[MaxPC]

The Lord saw fit to leave all those “technological advancements” in the dust.

The Romans used their excellent cement to build a coliseum where all manner of wickedness, murder, and persecution of believers happened. Perhaps the Lord was not pleased.

Interesting and yes, a valid viewpoint. I was trying to see it from the Anabaptist perspective of transformation being preferable to war and destruction. Perhaps the gravity of the civilisation's sin was such that even the tech knowledge was misused and therefore rendered tainted and unacceptable. I wonder if that same analogy can be applied to modern internet and technology?

Most Anabaptists are very sceptical of technology being a force for good, and generally reject technological “progress”.

Generally speaking Anabaptists would see war and destruction as possibly ordained by God - but not something we should participate in. It is clear that Jesus prophesied the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., for example. But Jesus told his followers to simply flee when they saw that happen.

Thank you for that lucid and succinct clarification. You have provided the missing puzzle piece to my understanding of Anabaptist non-resistance.

Regarding technological progress: within my circle of acquaintances who come from a variety of backgrounds (not just the PCs), they too are discerning the value of any new "innovation" instead of simply plunging into its use willy nilly.