joshuabgood wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 9:59 am
It feels to me that weightier matters of the law, gossip, slander, lack of love/submission/deference, etc - due to an avoidance of conflict ethic - are often not particularly effectively discipled/disciplined in the conservative Anabaptist setting.
In a counter intuitive way, I think this is partly the cause of the resulting schismatic tendencies in our groups that have been on full display now for 150 years or so. We are a far cry from what Jesus prayed for in John 17.
In the non-plain Mennonite setting, I think we are seeing the fruit of conflict avoidance with respect to the LGBTQ issue. MC-USA is falling apart as a result.
The churches I have been part of have often been better about confronting gossip, slander, lovelessness, etc.
I'd love to be in a place where both kinds of sin are treated the same way.
Neto wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 12:46 pmI'm not a "church leader", so I may be over-stepping my rightful bounds here, but I would think that a church leader ought to do the same (ask the same question). (And the same of a congregation that is actually "congregationalist" in governance structure.)
I agree, and it is why church leadership (and any kind of leadership) is so difficult.
joshuabgood wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 9:59 am
It feels to me that weightier matters of the law, gossip, slander, lack of love/submission/deference, etc - due to an avoidance of conflict ethic - are often not particularly effectively discipled/disciplined in the conservative Anabaptist setting.
In a counter intuitive way, I think this is partly the cause of the resulting schismatic tendencies in our groups that have been on full display now for 150 years or so. We are a far cry from what Jesus prayed for in John 17.
In the non-plain Mennonite setting, I think we are seeing the fruit of conflict avoidance with respect to the LGBTQ issue. MC-USA is falling apart as a result.
The churches I have been part of have often been better about confronting gossip, slander, lovelessness, etc.
I'd love to be in a place where both kinds of sin are treated the same way.
Yes, it would be much simpler if Christianity was honest and just announced that it was a religion for straight people only. That would eliminate most of the confusion and conflict.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
joshuabgood wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 9:59 am
It feels to me that weightier matters of the law, gossip, slander, lack of love/submission/deference, etc - due to an avoidance of conflict ethic - are often not particularly effectively discipled/disciplined in the conservative Anabaptist setting.
In a counter intuitive way, I think this is partly the cause of the resulting schismatic tendencies in our groups that have been on full display now for 150 years or so. We are a far cry from what Jesus prayed for in John 17.
In the non-plain Mennonite setting, I think we are seeing the fruit of conflict avoidance with respect to the LGBTQ issue. MC-USA is falling apart as a result.
The churches I have been part of have often been better about confronting gossip, slander, lovelessness, etc.
I'd love to be in a place where both kinds of sin are treated the same way.
Yes, it would be much simpler if Christianity was honest and just announced that it was a religion for straight people only. That would eliminate most of the confusion and conflict.
You know that Boot doesn't believe that. So why the snark?
In the non-plain Mennonite setting, I think we are seeing the fruit of conflict avoidance with respect to the LGBTQ issue. MC-USA is falling apart as a result.
The churches I have been part of have often been better about confronting gossip, slander, lovelessness, etc.
I'd love to be in a place where both kinds of sin are treated the same way.
Yes, it would be much simpler if Christianity was honest and just announced that it was a religion for straight people only. That would eliminate most of the confusion and conflict.
You know that Boot doesn't believe that. So why the snark?
From what I can tell he doesn't want gay people to have any meaningful role as equal members in his church unless they decide not to be gay or at least pretend not to be gay. That seems a distinction without a difference.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Yes, it would be much simpler if Christianity was honest and just announced that it was a religion for straight people only. That would eliminate most of the confusion and conflict.
You know that Boot doesn't believe that. So why the snark?
From what I can tell he doesn't want gay people to have any meaningful role as equal members in his church unless they decide not to be gay or at least pretend not to be gay. That seems a distinction without a difference.
I’d feel the same way about a glutton or an adulterer.
That’s not a fair description of Boot’s position at all.
A man indulging in lust burning towards another man, engaging in carnal death sin with another man, is something that cannot be in the kingdom of heaven.
However, many men control their lusts and desires. I would dare say most Christian men, and CA men too, often are attracted to women who aren’t their wife.
But it is not proper for them to speak of this or identify as an adulterer. They simply reject such thoughts and desires as being from the enemy.
Likewise, many Christian men aren’t married at all. To follow Jesus, they must be like Jesus and Paul and not indulge any carnal feelings or desires at all.
Ken wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 2:57 pm
Yes, it would be much simpler if Christianity was honest and just announced that it was a religion for straight people only. That would eliminate most of the confusion and conflict.
I think Christianity is a religion for people who want to be disciples of Jesus Christ, following what he said and did. Announcing that would eliminate most of the confusion, but it certainly would not remove most of the conflict.
Both straight people and gay people find Christian discipleship difficult. They have to count the cost and make sacrifices. Gay people's sin is no different from anyone else's sin.
Ken wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 3:14 pm
From what I can tell he doesn't want gay people to have any meaningful role as equal members in his church unless they decide not to be gay or at least pretend not to be gay. That seems a distinction without a difference.
Do you believe that heterosexual singles can avoid having sex outside of marriage without deciding not to be heterosexual or pretending not to be heterosexual?
Can people give up things they would love to have in order to follow Jesus, even if it's hard? Can we walk together with these people and help?