A Main Denomination Identifier Belief

[Soloist]

Well the question really is which one are we discussing Sudsy? Denominational belief? Or perception of others?

[barnhart]

If Pentacostals believe tongues to be the defining evidence of the Spirit filled life, then it is not a denominational distinctive because believers who lack are fake. It becomes a fundamental doctrine of Christianity. To be a denominational distinctive one must allow there is diversity in the kingdom of Jesus on this point.

I'm not sure I follow. I would suspect that most denominations believe that all of their beliefs are fundamental beliefs, not discretionary "denominational" beliefs. That is why we call them "beliefs" and not "customs"

Look at the Mennonite Confession of Faith, for example. Which ones of those do Mennonites believe are fundamental vs denominational?

Christians disagree on many things, the end times, modes of baptism, how to honor the Lord's day, prohibition of alcohol vs moderation, church governance (congregational vs episcopal) ect... Most agree there is a category where we can disagree but still be brothers. My question to Sudsy is this the category he wishes to discuss or does he want to discuss the areas each group holds essential.

[Sudsy]

Sorry to be confusing and I'll try to explain better what interests me on this. And still I may come across as confusing but I appreciate the views already expressed and the participation.

I believe our impressions of the main identifier of our faith group, will have a variety of answers. There will also be a variety of answers of the non-church and unsaved as what they think of when a Christian church is referred to. Furthermore, what was originally thought of certain faith groups as their main identifier is often not the same today as it was say, 50 years ago.

For example, my opinion, the Pentecostals (of which I am not one).

Originally - Pentecostals were identified as a group that believed to be filled with the Holy Spirit, one needed to speak in tongues. Not that you were not saved and have the Holy Spirit if you did not speak in tongues but you needed the 'baptism of the Spirit' to be empowered to live a Christian life. This I believe was a main identifier by other non-Pentecostal believers regarding what a Pentecostal believer was mainly about in doctrine and practise. However, I did know of Christians who thought Pentecostals thought you were not saved til you spoke in other tongues too.

Unbelievers in Christ - mainly thought of Pentecostals as people who in their churches were 'Holy rollers'. They did strange things when 'filled with the Spirit' such as rolling on the floor, being 'slain by the Spirit' , falling to the floor, dancing in the Spirit and other very emotional activity. (And perhaps this is still the main perception of some believers in non-Pentecostal churches.)

Today - I think there is a variety of views by both believers and non-believers that exist regarding Pentecostals. Some believers still view Pentecostals as mainly being those who believe in what I headed 'Originally' above whereas others think the Pentecostals are mainly about church growth and are quite worldly in their ways of growing their churches. Imo, the unsaved (as well as other non-Pentecostals) seem to be quite attracted to this way of 'doing church' and are churches, in many places, with the largest and fastest growing numbers. Watching our local Pentecostal church on Youtube, I doubt anyone would still regard them as 'Holy rollers' . Their dress, music and other areas are much like unsaved people. However, also can be seen on Youtube, there are Pentecostals, usually small in local church numbers, that are of the 'Holy roller' type and even snake handlers. This would likely still be the main identifier of being a Pentecostal in those communities.

So what I was interested in was what the participants here on this forum think is the main identifier of their church both from their own perspective, the perspective of Christians in other churches and the unsaved world. I especially think the current perspective of the unsaved world is well worth talking about.

[Ernie]

I'm not part of a denomination.

But in the kingdom Christian/Anabaptist faith tradition where I circulate, the emphasis is on "following Jesus".

We should all be honest and say what our denomination is, even if our denomination doesn’t like to be called a denomination. My own church doesn’t and instead just wants to say it is the “church”. But other people claim it’s a denomination and call it one.

Likewise, most Christians would probably agree their main emphasis is on “following Jesus”. That is hardly distinctive.

I would agree that generally speaking many, if not most, Christian churches would say they emphasize "following Jesus".

Maybe my distinction refers more to the Reformation era. Catholics emphasized "church", Protestants emphasized "belief", Anabaptists emphasized the word "follow".

I've asked professing Christians in the Bible belt whether they are a follower of Jesus. I don't remember all the answers but not all were ready to identify as such that. I remember one lady answering... "I... uh... love Jesus."

[Sudsy]

We should all be honest and say what our denomination is, even if our denomination doesn’t like to be called a denomination. My own church doesn’t and instead just wants to say it is the “church”. But other people claim it’s a denomination and call it one.

Likewise, most Christians would probably agree their main emphasis is on “following Jesus”. That is hardly distinctive.

I would agree that generally speaking many, if not most, Christian churches would say they emphasize "following Jesus".

Maybe my distinction refers more to the Reformation era. Catholics emphasized "church", Protestants emphasized "belief", Anabaptists emphasized the word "follow".

I've asked professing Christians in the Bible belt whether they are a follower of Jesus. I don't remember all the answers but not all were ready to identify as such that. I remember one lady answering... "I... uh... love Jesus."

I wonder what the unsaved world would say, in a poll, what they believe Anabaptists emphasize ?

Do they see the ways of Anabaptists as being 'following Jesus' ? I have often heard the scripture used by Anabaptists to 'come out from among them and be ye separate saith the Lord'. Did Jesus mean to isolate ourselves from the world as some do ? It would seem to me to be the opposite of Jesus example. Jesus was very much 'in the world but not of the world' and was often ridiculed for not isolating Himself from sinners. So one can say they are a Jesus follower yet this can be challenged by how they interact with the world to bring the Gospel to the world.

Due to this I would be surprised that the unsaved, as well as non-Anabaptist believers, regard Anabaptists as primarily Jesus followers but rather followers of a religious tradition quite unique in various ways from other non-Anabaptist groups of Christians.

Others might point out that many practises in Anabaptism are not from what Jesus was recorded as saying and doing but rather what was written in the Epistles.

If someone asked me if I was a 'Jesus follower' I would ask them in what sense they mean being a 'follower'. If they said 'do you follow the example of Jesus as He walked this earth', I would say 'no' but would say 'I try to understand and obey His teachings as the Holy Spirit guides me to'. I also am to rely on the Holy Spirit for specific direction in a very personal way that does not contradict the scriptures. And often don't have an 'ear to hear'.

My understanding of Anabaptism is that in it's early days the Holy Spirit's guidance was thought to be a distinctive they had over other Christians. Today, I seldom hear the Holy Spirit mentioned and this puzzles me.

Anyway, just my perspective. Everyone feel free to express theirs.

[Ken]

I wonder what the unsaved world would say, in a poll, what they believe Anabaptists emphasize ?

RULES would be my guess.

[Josh]

Most people in America only know about Amish. If you ask them their impression, they think good family values, valuing hard work, and growing organic food etc.

If they are aware of Mennonites they perceive them as running nice bakeries or being tradesmen. For example, upon hearing I knew of Mennonites where he lived, a man asked me if I could find a roofer.

[Neto]

We should all be honest and say what our denomination is, even if our denomination doesn’t like to be called a denomination. My own church doesn’t and instead just wants to say it is the “church”. But other people claim it’s a denomination and call it one.

Likewise, most Christians would probably agree their main emphasis is on “following Jesus”. That is hardly distinctive.

I would agree that generally speaking many, if not most, Christian churches would say they emphasize "following Jesus".

Maybe my distinction refers more to the Reformation era. Catholics emphasized "church", Protestants emphasized "belief", Anabaptists emphasized the word "follow".

I've asked professing Christians in the Bible belt whether they are a follower of Jesus. I don't remember all the answers but not all were ready to identify as such that. I remember one lady answering... "I... uh... love Jesus."

I once asked a classmate in HS if he was a Christian. He replied, "No, I'm Baptist." (But to be fair, there WAS a group in that area called "The Christian Church". One of my close friends was a member there. They were on the strict side, I'd say, but I never had any actual exposure to them, because I never visited any non-Mennonite church except once, when I saw an end-times film in the local First Baptist church. What struck me there was that a man who "went forward" was to be baptized and accepted as a member the following Sunday, basically in less than 60 hours. I visited with this guy from the Christian Church 4 years ago, when he stopped in at our "estate yard sale" for my folks' stuff, and he didn't say much about it, but my impression was that he was no longer a part of that.)