mike wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 11:16 am
Putin attempting to implement a Christmas ceasefire.
Every moment is appropriate to pray for resolution, if not peace.
Many Christians around the world annually celebrate Epiphany on January 6.
It is a public holiday in many countries and marks two events in Jesus Christ’s life, according to the Christian Bible.
The first event was when the three wise men, or kings, visited infant Jesus.
The second event was when St John the Baptist baptized Jesus.
mike wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 11:16 am
Putin attempting to implement a Christmas ceasefire.
He didn't try very hard because Russia fired cruise missiles at Ukraine on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day (under the western calendar).
One of the interesting things about this year's Christmas is that millions of Ukrainians chose to celebrate Christmas on December 25, which is the traditional western date of Christmas, rather than January 7, which is the traditional eastern orthodox date. Apparently this was a spontaneous mass pro-western and anti-Russian statement by Ukrainians to change the date they traditionally celebrated Christmas from January 7 to December 25.
That is a personal choice. No need to look to putin or biden for that decision.
More like a public decision. Christmas is by far the most public of religious holidays. It isn't something people just do on their own in private. It is the entire community.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
That is a personal choice. No need to look to putin or biden for that decision.
More like a public decision. Christmas is by far the most public of religious holidays. It isn't something people just do on their own in private. It is the entire community.
(i think) this may be where many Christians conflate their faith beliefs (and communities, brotherhoods] with the state.
not just regarding Christmas or Christian holidays (which various Christians reject, for various reasons).
Authentic faith is not led or controlled by states (ask Christians in China or in Muslim countries).
As well, not all recognize Christmas where Christmas is nationally recognized. Asian restaurants are often open on Christmas Day.
U.S. gov schools go to great lengths to ignore it.
Authentic faith transcends the earthly. (as i understand it, and value it.)
temporal1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:13 pm
That is a personal choice. No need to look to putin or biden for that decision.
More like a public decision. Christmas is by far the most public of religious holidays. It isn't something people just do on their own in private. It is the entire community.
(i think) this may be where many Christians conflate their faith beliefs (and communities, brotherhoods] with the state.
not just regarding Christmas or Christian holidays (which various Christians reject, for various reasons).
Authentic faith is not led or controlled by states (ask Christians in China or in Muslim countries).
As well, not all recognize Christmas where Christmas is nationally recognized. Asian restaurants are often open on Christmas Day.
U.S. gov schools go to great lengths to ignore it.
Authentic faith transcends the earthly. (as i understand it, and value it.)
Not "public" as in government-run. "Public" as in it is the religious holiday that we most celebrate in public with others. Christmas lights, chreches and manger scenes, Christmas carols in public, wishing strangers "merry Christmas", Christmas feasts, Christmas cookies, Christmas concerts and pageants, etc.
We tend not to do that for any other religious holiday except perhaps Holy Week in Catholic countries.
So the public kind of has to collectively decide when they are going to publicly celebrate Christmas, Dec 25 or Jan 7. This year in Ukraine there was a near universal shift from Jan 7 to Dec 25. And this shift was endorsed by the Ukrainian Orthodox Church in opposition to the Russian Orthodox Church centered in Moscow.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Josh wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:36 pm
I guess Ukrainians are (western) Catholics now, not Orthodox.
No, the Ukrainian Orthodox has severed ties with the Russian Orthodox Church based on Moscow. Choosing to celebrate Christmas on December 25 doesn't make them Catholics any more than it makes Mennonites Catholics for celebrating Christmas on December 25.
This is actually a bigger fight that goes way beyond Christmas. The Russian Orthodox Church is actually illegally seizing Ukrainian Orthodox churches and church properties in the occupied parts of Donetsk and Luhansk. They are also seizing protestant churches in the occupied territories as well. And now Ukraine is doing the same thing with Russian Orthodox churches in Ukraine So the schism between the two branches of the church in Ukraine seems to be growing.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Josh wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:36 pm
I guess Ukrainians are (western) Catholics now, not Orthodox.
No, the Ukrainian Orthodox has severed ties with the Russian Orthodox Church based on Moscow. Choosing to celebrate Christmas on December 25 doesn't make them Catholics any more than it makes Mennonites Catholics for celebrating Christmas on December 25.
This is actually a bigger fight that goes way beyond Christmas. The Russian Orthodox Church is actually illegally seizing Ukrainian Orthodox churches and church properties in the occupied parts of Donetsk and Luhansk. They are also seizing protestant churches in the occupied territories as well. And now Ukraine is doing the same thing with Russian Orthodox churches in Ukraine So the schism between the two branches of the church in Ukraine seems to be growing.
Prior to the war, a majority of Ukrainians identified with the Kyiv Patriarch rather than with Moscow. I assume that trend will increase. It's not a question of whether Ukraine will be Orthodox, but rather which Orthodox Church they will be a part of.
Josh wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:36 pm
I guess Ukrainians are (western) Catholics now, not Orthodox.
No, the Ukrainian Orthodox has severed ties with the Russian Orthodox Church based on Moscow. Choosing to celebrate Christmas on December 25 doesn't make them Catholics any more than it makes Mennonites Catholics for celebrating Christmas on December 25.
People like Amish don’t observe Dec. 25 but use a pre-calendar reform liturgical calendar. (They observe Dec. 25 ads a civic holiday but otherwise celebrate “old Christmas”.)
This is actually a bigger fight that goes way beyond Christmas. The Russian Orthodox Church is actually illegally seizing Ukrainian Orthodox churches and church properties in the occupied parts of Donetsk and Luhansk. They are also seizing protestant churches in the occupied territories as well. And now Ukraine is doing the same thing with Russian Orthodox churches in Ukraine So the schism between the two branches of the church in Ukraine seems to be growing.
Adopting Catholic calendar reforms is an integral part of the difference between Western and Eastern Christianity.
Lots of non-Russian countries (like Greece, Turkey, and Serbia) maintain the ancient Eastern calendar without the Catholic church’s post-1054 calendar reforms.
Simply put, this means Ukrainians are moving in either a western Catholic or a Protestant direction, and away from Eastern Orthodoxy.
