The Anabaptist perception on life before The Flood!

[Josh]

The ancients were skilled in sorcery, magic, divination, and engaging in the supernatural world. One does not need spaceships or aircraft when one does such things.

[RZehr]

Well, of course. Point being ignored, is the basic idea that the pre-flood had 4,000 years to build on these things with smarter and longer living people. Compared to us having only 2,000 years, and dumber and shorter life span.
Taking on these assumptions, why wouldn’t they have been able to invent more and better things than us? What am I missing? (Except, obviously, archeological evidence.)

Population densities? Technological advancement comes with high population densities and large cities. That is necessary for the sort of specialization required for advanced industry. Is there any evidence of giant cities during this time, either Biblical or archaeological?

And we have had much longer than 2000 years. Isn't the flood usually dated to about 2,000 BC give or take? Which would mean 4,100 years since the flood.

Good points. I had my flood date incorrect for some reason. Population is an important component.

So the pre-flood had 2,000 years and we’ve had 4,000 years. So the only things they had was better intelligence and longer lifespans. Which in my opinion are probably not as important as more years and higher population numbers.

However how much invention really happened between the flood and say 1000 A.D.? If most of the invention took place in the last 1,000 years, maybe the pre-flood people had enough time to invent in their 2,000 years.
And perhaps, assuming a couple hundred year lifespan, maybe they procreated at a much, much higher rate than the last 1,000 years. Maybe instead of having babies from 15 to 45 years old, they had babies from 15 to 115 years old. Maybe they had a huge population.

But this all seems pretty implausible to me.

[Ken]

Well, of course. Point being ignored, is the basic idea that the pre-flood had 4,000 years to build on these things with smarter and longer living people. Compared to us having only 2,000 years, and dumber and shorter life span.
Taking on these assumptions, why wouldn’t they have been able to invent more and better things than us? What am I missing? (Except, obviously, archeological evidence.)

Population densities? Technological advancement comes with high population densities and large cities. That is necessary for the sort of specialization required for advanced industry. Is there any evidence of giant cities during this time, either Biblical or archaeological?

And we have had much longer than 2000 years. Isn't the flood usually dated to about 2,000 BC give or take? Which would mean 4,100 years since the flood.

Good points. I had my flood date incorrect for some reason. Population is an important component.

So the pre-flood had 2,000 years and we’ve had 4,000 years. So the only things they had was better intelligence and longer lifespans. Which in my opinion are probably not as important as more years and higher population numbers.

However how much invention really happened between the flood and say 1000 A.D.? If most of the invention took place in the last 1,000 years, maybe the pre-flood people had enough time to invent in their 2,000 years.
And perhaps, assuming a couple hundred year lifespan, maybe they procreated at a much, much higher rate than the last 1,000 years. Maybe instead of having babies from 15 to 45 years old, they had babies from 15 to 115 years old. Maybe they had a huge population.

But this all seems pretty implausible to me.

Why are you assuming that pre-flood people were more intelligent? Is there evidence for that? They obviously weren't intelligent enough to avoid being exterminated by God. That seems pretty dumb. Debauchery is kind of the opposite of productivity.

[MaxPC]

I've read of there being evidence of electricity and such like. Did Noah have power tools to build the ark?

Shocking

The ancients were skilled in sorcery, magic, divination, and engaging in the supernatural world. One does not need spaceships or aircraft when one does such things.

In Catholic World we have holy individuals who could bi-locate. Very efficient, that.

[Soloist]

In Catholic World we have holy individuals who could bi-locate. Very efficient, that.

Dare I ask what that is?

[RZehr]

Population densities? Technological advancement comes with high population densities and large cities. That is necessary for the sort of specialization required for advanced industry. Is there any evidence of giant cities during this time, either Biblical or archaeological?

And we have had much longer than 2000 years. Isn't the flood usually dated to about 2,000 BC give or take? Which would mean 4,100 years since the flood.

Good points. I had my flood date incorrect for some reason. Population is an important component.

So the pre-flood had 2,000 years and we’ve had 4,000 years. So the only things they had was better intelligence and longer lifespans. Which in my opinion are probably not as important as more years and higher population numbers.

However how much invention really happened between the flood and say 1000 A.D.? If most of the invention took place in the last 1,000 years, maybe the pre-flood people had enough time to invent in their 2,000 years.
And perhaps, assuming a couple hundred year lifespan, maybe they procreated at a much, much higher rate than the last 1,000 years. Maybe instead of having babies from 15 to 45 years old, they had babies from 15 to 115 years old. Maybe they had a huge population.

But this all seems pretty implausible to me.

Why are you assuming that pre-flood people were more intelligent? Is there evidence for that? They obviously weren't intelligent enough to avoid being exterminated by God. That seems pretty dumb. Debauchery is kind of the opposite of productivity.

When God created man, man was perfect. This is why siblings could marry and not have genetic deformity back then. Sin brought death, and now cells die. As opposed to evolution, which teaches man keeps evolving for the better, I think back then, Adam was able to more efficiently and effectively use his brain.

It’s been a long time, but I think there is a hypothesis out there that I read which informed my thinking on this. Probably Googleable. Probably linked to young earth websites or pro creation anti-evolution websites.

The debauchery can be done by smart people.

[RZehr]

Few articles on the matter.
https://creationmoments.com/article/how ... -was-adam/
https://biblescienceguy.wordpress.com/2 ... brilliant/
And of course: https://answersingenesis.org/archaeolog ... ot-brutes/
https://creation.com/computers-on-the-ark

[Ken]

Good points. I had my flood date incorrect for some reason. Population is an important component.

So the pre-flood had 2,000 years and we’ve had 4,000 years. So the only things they had was better intelligence and longer lifespans. Which in my opinion are probably not as important as more years and higher population numbers.

However how much invention really happened between the flood and say 1000 A.D.? If most of the invention took place in the last 1,000 years, maybe the pre-flood people had enough time to invent in their 2,000 years.
And perhaps, assuming a couple hundred year lifespan, maybe they procreated at a much, much higher rate than the last 1,000 years. Maybe instead of having babies from 15 to 45 years old, they had babies from 15 to 115 years old. Maybe they had a huge population.

But this all seems pretty implausible to me.

Why are you assuming that pre-flood people were more intelligent? Is there evidence for that? They obviously weren't intelligent enough to avoid being exterminated by God. That seems pretty dumb. Debauchery is kind of the opposite of productivity.

When God created man, man was perfect. This is why siblings could marry and not have genetic deformity back then. Sin brought death, and now cells die. As opposed to evolution, which teaches man keeps evolving for the better, I think back then, Adam was able to more efficiently and effectively use his brain.

It’s been a long time, but I think there is a hypothesis out there that I read which informed my thinking on this. Probably Googleable. Probably linked to young earth websites or pro creation anti-evolution websites.

The debauchery can be done by smart people.

So they were evil geniuses? I guess that is possible.

[Neto]

I think that a key factor to consider is the question of necessity. Their communities may have been much less scattered. One of the difficulties we faced in our attempt to integrate "literate-ness" into Banawa culture is the fact that all but a few semi-alienated speakers, they all lived in a single village. Some related tribes were large enough that there were a number of scattered villages, at a day or more walk away. One of the first signs of cultural integration we saw was when a man left the village to go hunting after his brother-in-law's father-in-law had been bitten by a snake. He went on the trail that passes though the are where he expected his BIL to be hunting, and so he left a message scratched into a leaf, and posted it along the trail. The other man DID find it, and hurried home.
In our desire to see reading & writing become an integral part of the culture - something that would survive even after we were gone, and assuming that there might never be an organized school there, we especially avoided setting up anything like what we as Westerners would think of as a conventional school or classroom. That was not at all how knowledge was passed on in their culture, so our objective was to get it started in the cultural way. Later the "local" government ("local" in that the area was under their official jurisdiction; but the seat of government was actually 4 or more days travel away, even by river boat) set up a school, built a building, and hired one of the single men who had learned to read & write in our informal training to be the teacher. But before that, there WERE actually some children who were learning to read & write from one-on-one teaching done informally in their own cultural way. (You might say we planned for our own "obsolescence".)

[RZehr]

Why are you assuming that pre-flood people were more intelligent? Is there evidence for that? They obviously weren't intelligent enough to avoid being exterminated by God. That seems pretty dumb. Debauchery is kind of the opposite of productivity.

When God created man, man was perfect. This is why siblings could marry and not have genetic deformity back then. Sin brought death, and now cells die. As opposed to evolution, which teaches man keeps evolving for the better, I think back then, Adam was able to more efficiently and effectively use his brain.

It’s been a long time, but I think there is a hypothesis out there that I read which informed my thinking on this. Probably Googleable. Probably linked to young earth websites or pro creation anti-evolution websites.

The debauchery can be done by smart people.

So they were evil geniuses? I guess that is possible.

Some became evil very quickly according to the Bible.
I suppose they could have invented, and established great civilizations and the graph would curve upward until at last the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
And then, as sin and anarchy and abortion and perverse sexuality and assisted suicide and evil and unbridled capitalism destroyed the ancient civilizations, the graph starts to steadily fall downward, until the earth is filled with violence through them.
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth. And since mankind so badly misused his abilities and lifespan God said that his spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Can read more in Genesis 6.