In the Name of “Mission Work” book about CAM/Mast

[just_thinking]

Yes executive team got replaced. CAM did themselves zero favours by not being very forthcoming about these changes. The board was also reconstituted and is now headed by Tom (“Tommy”) Wagler. If you have a problem, give him a call.

Completely replaced?

[Neto]

I assume that while this thread is to some extent about mission work (that's what the title says), ASAA as mentioned here is probably not referring to the Anabaptist Sociology and Anthropology Association, but rather to something about abuse.

[ABC 123]

I assume that while this thread is to some extent about mission work (that's what the title says), ASAA as mentioned here is probably not referring to the Anabaptist Sociology and Anthropology Association, but rather to something about abuse.

Anabaptist Sexual Abuse Awareness

[Josh]

Josh and RZ, I am not sure how your ideas would've changed the outcome if Faith/Shining Light would've been in charge of sending or not sending JM or Charity/Grandpa Herr. They knew and allowed them to be sent.

In plain Anabaptist settings, I doubt anybody is more than 3 phone calls away from leadership to leadership of somebody who knows somebody.

Learning from our mistakes, another JM situation should not happen. Key phrase: learn from our mistakes. First that branch of Anabaptists has to recognize they had a faulty view on serial pedophilia. If they do not recognize that, it would be wise to never accept a volunteer from their churches again.

Yes, I am quoting myself.

A joint organization among multiple Anabaptist churches has the potential to work really well. I dont think of all the different conferences as being so removed from each other. A board made up of a sampling of churches can actually be a strength. Multitude of counselors and all that.

It works well when things are going well but when things don’t go well… lots of opportunity to pass the buck.

In my church, only our own church’s members can be sent as missionaries. That makes accountability MUCH clearer and simpler.

If a group of churches can run a joint mission organisation… then they should become a church conference or fellowship and the churches and members become accountable to each other.

CAM erred very badly in allowing a “missionary” to come from a church that is accountable to no one. In my church, the JM situation would have had a few important differences:

- Nobody with a history of sexual immorality to the point of being expelled for it can be a minister / preacher.
- Generally speaking to a same is true for missionaries as they fill a role similar to a minister.
- The home church and its ministers (including JM’s dad) would have been on the hook for his conduct.
- The churches in Haiti are in full communion with our churches in America. A minister or member there can bring a concern about a missionary and actually have a chance of being taken seriously. And in Haiti, he would have been part of a Haitian church. The members there could have chosen to discipline or even excommunicate him, and in fact would have been required to do so if he was caught in death sin (which sexual immorality like he was doing, absolutely is).
- JM’s wife would have received strong counsel about his past of sexual sin. Some ministers in our church wouldn’t allow such a marriage at all. Others would make it wait a year or two and require a lot of counselling.
- JM’s wife would be free to divorce (her choice, not required to) after JM’s sexual sin broke the marriage bond.

The problem presented was a failure to keep known pedophiles from the mission field. Whether that is just poor judgment or negligence, that needs to be addressed.

Agreed.

If each conference did their own missions, JM type situations won't change unless we collectively deal with what we think about sexual sins and long term ramifications of those who historically have preyed on kids.

Also agreed. But most CA fellowships and conferences are doing this. Even Amish groups are as well. Most people are sick and tired of pedophiles from powerful families having free reign.

Currently, the sexually immoral are taking advantage of the “independent” church system to escape accountability. Case in point - where is JM keeping his church membership now?

[Josh]

Completely replaced?

Tell us who the executive team was in 2018 and who it is now.

CAM’s lack of transparency about these changes does them no favours, by the way, and Guidestar has out of date information.

[Josh]

If I had not been on Mennonet or Facebook, I wouldn't have known much at all about the Jeriah Mast/CAM scandal.

I find that extremely concerning.

[Biodegradableglitter]

Josh and RZ, I am not sure how your ideas would've changed the outcome if Faith/Shining Light would've been in charge of sending or not sending JM or Charity/Grandpa Herr. They knew and allowed them to be sent.

In plain Anabaptist settings, I doubt anybody is more than 3 phone calls away from leadership to leadership of somebody who knows somebody.

Learning from our mistakes, another JM situation should not happen. Key phrase: learn from our mistakes. First that branch of Anabaptists has to recognize they had a faulty view on serial pedophilia. If they do not recognize that, it would be wise to never accept a volunteer from their churches again.

Yes, I am quoting myself.

A joint organization among multiple Anabaptist churches has the potential to work really well. I dont think of all the different conferences as being so removed from each other. A board made up of a sampling of churches can actually be a strength. Multitude of counselors and all that.

It works well when things are going well but when things don’t go well… lots of opportunity to pass the buck.

In my church, only our own church’s members can be sent as missionaries. That makes accountability MUCH clearer and simpler.

If a group of churches can run a joint mission organisation… then they should become a church conference or fellowship and the churches and members become accountable to each other.

CAM erred very badly in allowing a “missionary” to come from a church that is accountable to no one. In my church, the JM situation would have had a few important differences:

- Nobody with a history of sexual immorality to the point of being expelled for it can be a minister / preacher.
- Generally speaking to a same is true for missionaries as they fill a role similar to a minister.
- The home church and its ministers (including JM’s dad) would have been on the hook for his conduct.
- The churches in Haiti are in full communion with our churches in America. A minister or member there can bring a concern about a missionary and actually have a chance of being taken seriously. And in Haiti, he would have been part of a Haitian church. The members there could have chosen to discipline or even excommunicate him, and in fact would have been required to do so if he was caught in death sin (which sexual immorality like he was doing, absolutely is).
- JM’s wife would have received strong counsel about his past of sexual sin. Some ministers in our church wouldn’t allow such a marriage at all. Others would make it wait a year or two and require a lot of counselling.
- JM’s wife would be free to divorce (her choice, not required to) after JM’s sexual sin broke the marriage bond.

The problem presented was a failure to keep known pedophiles from the mission field. Whether that is just poor judgment or negligence, that needs to be addressed.

Agreed.

If each conference did their own missions, JM type situations won't change unless we collectively deal with what we think about sexual sins and long term ramifications of those who historically have preyed on kids.

Also agreed. But most CA fellowships and conferences are doing this. Even Amish groups are as well. Most people are sick and tired of pedophiles from powerful families having free reign.

Currently, the sexually immoral are taking advantage of the “independent” church system to escape accountability. Case in point - where is JM keeping his church membership now?

Is your church the Holdeman Mennonite church? If so, aren’t they either currently being sued or have been recently sued as a conference for mishandling a child sex abuse case? Not to cast any stones, because I know of no other Anabaptist group worthy to cast stones. I see the value in the system you describe *if* the system also has specific and proper abuse prevention/response protocols in place. There are multitudes of churches who run a very tight ship on a host of issues on which they place importance, but completely drop the ball on sexual abuse.

[Soloist]

Is your church the Holdeman Mennonite church? If so, aren’t they either currently being sued or have been recently sued as a conference for mishandling a child sex abuse case? Not to cast any stones, because I know of no other Anabaptist group worthy to cast stones. I see the value in the system you describe *if* the system also has specific and proper abuse prevention/response protocols in place. There are multitudes of churches who run a very tight ship on a host of issues on which they place importance, but completely drop the ball on sexual abuse.

Our church group (pilgrim) has a document they are working through in the traditional way Mennonites operate aka slooowly.
As for the Holderman Mennonites, well every single church or organization in the world has this problem. That is the problem. We are supposed to not follow the way of the world.
The few churches I’ve seen handing this have done well but I haven’t seen that many. A charity church (I’m not positive what they are called now) handled it very well when it was found out what the guy was doing

[Josh]

Is your church the Holdeman Mennonite church? If so, aren’t they either currently being sued or have been recently sued as a conference for mishandling a child sex abuse case? Not to cast any stones, because I know of no other Anabaptist group worthy to cast stones. I see the value in the system you describe *if* the system also has specific and proper abuse prevention/response protocols in place. There are multitudes of churches who run a very tight ship on a host of issues on which they place importance, but completely drop the ball on sexual abuse.

There was a man whose father abused him. His father was excommunicated (I believe for other reasons). He is very angry and offended at our church and threatened a lawsuit which never went to trial.

Our church settled out of court and used lawyers to draft a settlement. The lawyers actually advised against settlement because they thought our church could “win”. We preferred to try to settle and see if we could do something to make him happier. Apparently he liked the settlement because he accepted it. It was a substantial sum of money.

Nowadays we have a general liability policy which every member gets to pay $1/mo for and we do whatever our insurance company tells us to do. Do you like that? Is that “proper abuse prevention/protocols”? If we are sued again the insurance company’s lawyers take over.

aren’t they either currently being sued or have been recently sued as a conference for mishandling a child sex abuse case?

I do not know why Anabaptist denominations are expected to have 100% complete control of every individual member, especially excommunicated members. I can understand holding leadership to a high standard. But the expectation on Anabaptist denominations to have zero abuse is absurd.

For comparison, is there any abuse happening amongst the billion or so Catholics worldwide? Or billion or so Muslims? Should their denominations be considered “law enforcement” to try to police errant members - and ex-members?

[hillperson]

I mean no disrespect but while we are playing quarterback from our easy chairs Haitians are going hungry. The situation is dire because of the political unrest. While our bellies are stuffed with Christmas food our brothers and sisters are in great need.

Meanwhile we pontificate about what how mission boards should be run better. They at least get in the dirt and try to meet peoples needs. It’s messy business and there are no easy answers but they’re doing more than I’m doing at this moment. They have my admiration.

It’s time to get on our knees and pray. Pray for the country of Haiti. Pray that our missions could run with integrity.