Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[temporal1]

If the U.S. had not eagerly jumped into it Feb 24, Ukraine would have had motivation to find resolution -
possibly before one shot was fired. This question haunts me.

All indications are, the U.S., NATO, Zelensky, were prepared (and possibly baiting/teasing) Putin for years in advance.
These politicians+the US MIC, are not going to just walk away from multiple billions in the name of non military resolution.

Old saying,”that girl is all dressed up, with no place to go.”

The msm admits Putin has been seeking resolution. (AP report, P.213).

Dec 22, Pelosi+Zelensky held a public love-fest to celebrate additional billions .. today ..

Newsweek / “Full Lists of the Demands Russia, Ukraine Have Made to End War”
https://www.newsweek.com/full-lists-dem ... ar-1769742
^^US ramps up - Russia ramps up. Count on it.

Regardless of Zelensky or Putin, the U.S. is merrily funding a long war. With hugs+kisses. This is beyond debate.
MSM sells it so U.S. citizens don’t squawk.

i watch Zelensky dance and wonder if he feels any bit a human anymore. “everything” hedges on billions from a fickle partner, win or lose, his country has been decimated. (indications are) before Feb 24 this was all planned, he was promised everything. Putin moved, Z rushed to collect on promises. SEND BILLIONS. it hasn’t stopped.

“with friends like you, who needs enemies?”

it’s really hard to know what’s going on, as Soloist and others are saying, in times of conflict/war, PROPAGANDA runs wild.
msm is #1 propaganda arm. by size+range, if nothing else.

Buyer Beware.

[mike]

If the U.S. had not eagerly jumped into it Feb 24, Ukraine would have had motivation to find resolution - possibly before one shot was fired.

However, all indications are, the U.S., NATO, Zelensky, were prepared (and possibly baiting/teasing) Putin for years in advance.
These politicians+the US MIC, are not going to just walk away from multiple billions in the name of non military resolution.

Prior to the outbreak of WW2 there was all kinds of diplomacy going on. None of it mattered in the end because Hitler was always going to extend the reach of the Reich by one means or another. There's an angle where you could say it was failed diplomacy that caused the war, but in the end, aggressive dictators who are willing to use force aren't going to be stopped from getting what they want by "peace talks." Unless those peace talks are a euphemism for handing them their wishes on a silver platter.

Yes, there are reasons for Putin's outrage that drove him to invade a sovereign nation, just like there were reasons for Hitler's outrage that drove him to invade his neighbors. This doesn't mean that WW2 was the fault of the Allies or Poland or Czechoslovakia. Nobody in Europe in the 1930s wanted war, except Hitler. The responsibility for the war lies with Hitler more than ANY other factor. I disagree that the US or NATO really wanted a Russia-Ukraine war. Putin is the one who wanted it, and now he has it. The war is on him personally more than on anything else.

However, the US has benefited from the war. Russia's war-making capability (as well as other aspects of its major power status) has been substantially reduced at a cost of exactly zero American military casualties. This in exchange for aid that amounts to a small percentage of the US annual defense budget.

[Ken]

If the U.S. had not eagerly jumped into it Feb 24, Ukraine would have had motivation to find resolution - possibly before one shot was fired.

However, all indications are, the U.S., NATO, Zelensky, were prepared (and possibly baiting/teasing) Putin for years in advance.
These politicians+the US MIC, are not going to just walk away from multiple billions in the name of non military resolution.

Prior to the outbreak of WW2 there was all kinds of diplomacy going on. None of it mattered in the end because Hitler was always going to extend the reach of the Reich by one means or another. There's an angle where you could say it was failed diplomacy that caused the war, but in the end, aggressive dictators who are willing to use force aren't going to be stopped from getting what they want by "peace talks." Unless those peace talks are a euphemism for handing them their wishes on a silver platter.

Yes, there are reasons for Putin's outrage that drove him to invade a sovereign nation, just like there were reasons for Hitler's outrage that drove him to invade his neighbors. This doesn't mean that WW2 was the fault of the Allies or Poland or Czechoslovakia. Nobody in Europe in the 1930s wanted war, except Hitler. The responsibility for the war lies with Hitler more than ANY other factor. I disagree that the US or NATO really wanted a Russia-Ukraine war. Putin is the one who wanted it, and now he has it. The war is on him personally more than on anything else.

However, the US has benefited from the war. Russia's war-making capability (as well as other aspects of its major power status) has been substantially reduced at a cost of exactly zero American military casualties. This in exchange for aid that amounts to a small percentage of the US annual defense budget.

To date the US has spent less on Ukraine than Elon Musk spent to buy Twitter.

And since the US (and other countries) have mostly sent Ukraine older semi-obsolete material it gives the Pentagon (and military industrial complex) the rare opportunity to dispose of masses of aging munitions and replace with newer/better stuff. Not to mention the opportunity to test for free a lot of US weapons/drones etc. in battlefield conditions that don't exist in peace time.

From the purely Machiavellian point of view, Putin has given the Pentagon and US military industrial complex an absolute once-in-a-lifetime windfall. The poor performance of Russian weaponry in Ukraine is also turning out to be a priceless advertising campaign for American and other western arms manufacturers and dealers. Militaries around the world are not going to want to keep buying the Russian stuff that is performing so poorly.

[mike]

It's a proxy war. One hopes it is not what the Spanish civil war was to WW2, a proving ground for the larger conflict to come.

And there's another European conflict brewing as well, apparently.

[Ken]

It's a proxy war. One hopes it is not what the Spanish civil war was to WW2, a proving ground for the larger conflict to come.

For the US maybe, but Ukraine is not a proxy war for Russia. I tend to think of the definition of proxy war as one where both large powers are doing battle by proxy. Like the current war in Yemen which is essentially a proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Usually they are some sort of civil war with different sides supported by different external powers. Ukraine is not a civil war with different factions of Ukrainians fighting each other.

[Soloist]

It's a proxy war. One hopes it is not what the Spanish civil war was to WW2, a proving ground for the larger conflict to come.

For the US maybe, but Ukraine is not a proxy war for Russia. I tend to think of the definition of proxy war as one where both large powers are doing battle by proxy. Like the current war in Yemen which is essentially a proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Usually they are some sort of civil war with different sides supported by different external powers. Ukraine is not a civil war with different factions of Ukrainians fighting each other.

It started as a proxy war of Russia supporting the rebels. If we were involved then, it was mostly secret. Next Russia invades and we actively engage in a proxy war. Everyone always claims the rebels on the opposite side are created by the enemy. I don’t know if the Rebels were created by Russia but they were there before Russia invaded. In a sense the country was in a civil war, it just only affected a few areas.

[temporal1]

If the U.S. had not eagerly jumped into it Feb 24, Ukraine would have had motivation to find resolution - possibly before one shot was fired.

However, all indications are, the U.S., NATO, Zelensky, were prepared (and possibly baiting/teasing) Putin for years in advance.
These politicians+the US MIC, are not going to just walk away from multiple billions in the name of non military resolution.

Prior to the outbreak of WW2 there was all kinds of diplomacy going on. None of it mattered in the end because Hitler was always going to extend the reach of the Reich by one means or another. There's an angle where you could say it was failed diplomacy that caused the war, but in the end, aggressive dictators who are willing to use force aren't going to be stopped from getting what they want by "peace talks." Unless those peace talks are a euphemism for handing them their wishes on a silver platter.

Yes, there are reasons for Putin's outrage that drove him to invade a sovereign nation, just like there were reasons for Hitler's outrage that drove him to invade his neighbors. This doesn't mean that WW2 was the fault of the Allies or Poland or Czechoslovakia. Nobody in Europe in the 1930s wanted war, except Hitler. The responsibility for the war lies with Hitler more than ANY other factor. I disagree that the US or NATO really wanted a Russia-Ukraine war. Putin is the one who wanted it, and now he has it. The war is on him personally more than on anything else.

However, the US has benefited from the war. Russia's war-making capability (as well as other aspects of its major power status) has been substantially reduced at a cost of exactly zero American military casualties. This in exchange for aid that amounts to a small percentage of the US annual defense budget.

Thanks for this. i want to respond later. if it doesn’t get too buried.

[Josh]

What does Elon Musk buying Twitter have to do with price of tea in China?

[Soloist]

What does Elon Musk buying Twitter have to do with price of tea in China?

When all the liberals fled twitter they suddenly had nothing to do all day and took up drinking tea.

[mike]

What does Elon Musk buying Twitter have to do with price of tea in China Internet in Ukraine?

he strings up those starlink satellites and because he wasted so much money on twitter he has to make the internet more expensive over there