In the Name of “Mission Work” book about CAM/Mast

[joshuabgood]

Decent for me was greater then 60k. I know Mennonites have to keep up with their aggressive vacations… I thought the pay was lower. I’m not sure though that a 6 figure salary is that unreasonable in our economy now days. I last looked around when the thing broke out in the first place. I can’t even remember when it happened.

A salary of 130k is higher than 90% of all Americans. It is a wealthy salary. The median salary in the USA is 54k.

I wonder what the median salary is at CAM or for school teachers in those communities.

Or what was offered to the victims versus what was paid to attorneys etc...

That is why I don't think the reluctance for a third party investigation is a monetary one primarily.

[Soloist]

A salary of 130k is higher than 90% of all Americans. It is a wealthy salary. The median salary in the USA is 54k.

I wonder what the median salary is at CAM or for school teachers in those communities.

Or what was offered to the victims versus what was paid to attorneys etc...

That is why I don't think the reluctance for a third party investigation is a monetary one primarily.

large families tend to need larger income. We certainly have discussed how it’s much more expensive to raise a family. My personal opinion though is the job is paid by stress level. Nurses tend to have high stress jobs and while many are not making 6 figures, the more intense jobs in nursing can.
I’ve seen a job posting for 55 an hour for an LPN and I still see them in specific jobs and areas. All this to say, given the stress level and the amount of flack coming with the job, I’d say the pay sounds fair. Now are they doing a good job is a completely different question.
Any for profit company covering as much as CAM does would likely be paying 200k or greater for the top guy easy.

I would agree the reluctance is not concern about the cost of Grace. Now the follow on lawsuits might be a concern… that would be in my mind the bigger issue. If Grace decided they were at fault then victims could use this to take CAM to court. That might badly damage the organization itself. So… it might still really be about money. What do I know though, I only know an ex-missionary from Haiti who left CAM, no inner circle secrets here.

[Josh]

Decent for me was greater then 60k. I know Mennonites have to keep up with their aggressive vacations… I thought the pay was lower. I’m not sure though that a 6 figure salary is that unreasonable in our economy now days. I last looked around when the thing broke out in the first place. I can’t even remember when it happened.

A salary of 130k is higher than 90% of all Americans. It is a wealthy salary. The median salary in the USA is 54k.

I wonder what the median salary is at CAM or for school teachers in those communities.

Do you think CAM’s executive head should be an 18 year old school teacher?

Or what was offered to the victims versus what was paid to attorneys etc...

A nonprofit managing $100s of millions of dollars needs to hire competent legal counsel, and indeed has a basic duty to do so.

That is why I don't think the reluctance for a third party investigation is a monetary one primarily.

I’m simply asking the question. How much would GRACE charge for an investigation?

Why is this such a big secret?

[Josh]

I would agree the reluctance is not concern about the cost of Grace. Now the follow on lawsuits might be a concern… that would be in my mind the bigger issue. If Grace decided they were at fault then victims could use this to take CAM to court. That might badly damage the organization itself. So… it might still really be about money. What do I know though, I only know an ex-missionary from Haiti who left CAM, no inner circle secrets here.

I can think of zero reason a CAM donor would want to pay for an “independent investigator” who in turn opens the organisation up for high price lawyers to sue CAM for every dollar it has (which is, again, donor money).

It’s completely unrealistic. I don’t go and hire a prosecuting attorney to follow my car around to check up if I ever roll a stop or speed so he can then take me to court for it.

[ABC 123]

It makes my blood boil, the church and family system JM came from that enabled him to have unfettered access to victims to start with. So much HOLINESS and snubbing of "lesser people". And his poor wife who they made sure renewed her wedding vows while it was unfolding upon their return to the USA.

You can't fault the guy who wrote the book for not walking away with the "proper view" of the "righteous" organization and people who let him down so colossally. That he didn't just walk away from his faith altogether is a marvel.

Yes, I read the book. Yes, I know people directly involved.

[justme]

And his poor wife who they made sure renewed her wedding vows while it was unfolding upon their return to the USA.

that's the problem w marriage in some of these churches.
if a person makes a poor choice, there is NO WAY out. there is nothing that can be done to fix it. she is stuck.

[undershepherd]

That is why I don't think the reluctance for a third party investigation is a monetary one primarily.

I’m simply asking the question. How much would GRACE charge for an investigation?

Why is this such a big secret?

It is not a secret. The cost for an investigation varies depending on the complexity of the situation and logistics with conducting interviews etc. There is no way to know what the cost might be without getting an estimate or quote from GRACE for this specific situation.

But I have heard that the cost for the GRACE investigation that Joshuabgood references in this thread ran about $30,000.

[joshuabgood]

Do you think CAM’s executive head should be an 18 year old school teacher?

No. (I also have reservations about 18 year old teacher's but that is another thread I suppose). I guess I am idealistic enough to think that perhaps we could all do the work God called us to do in the nonprofit world for more in the 50-80 range. And I personally know many who have given their lives in the nonprofit world that are commensurate professionals and are more in the 40-50, if that, range. That is all.

A nonprofit managing $100s of millions of dollars needs to hire competent legal counsel, and indeed has a basic duty to do so.

It seems they were selectively retained. Legal advice wasnt followed when it came to basic institutional legality and integrity, re actually reporting crimes, but was retained on the part of protecting financial interest. Another question is were those on the receiving end receiving similar representation.

I’m simply asking the question. How much would GRACE charge for an investigation

I don't know. But some one could ring BMA and ask. But it isn't the money...I don't think. I wouldnt accuse them of that. It is probably other factors primarily. Distrust of outsiders, feeling like it is taken care of, feeling like only church authority should be involved and not parachurch orgs, it would only stir things up again, etc. And then, based on their own reports it looks like funds are increasing all the more so there really isn't any fiscal pressure. So there would be a lot of risk and fear for little reward instituionally, probably. It is likely a strategic decision primarily. As before, aside from a community swell of pressure, or funding pressure, not going to happen.

[Josh]

And his poor wife who they made sure renewed her wedding vows while it was unfolding upon their return to the USA.

that's the problem w marriage in some of these churches.
if a person makes a poor choice, there is NO WAY out. there is nothing that can be done to fix it. she is stuck.

Do you think the culture of widespread divorce is somehow better?

The story I heard is that she was warned multiple times about her fiancé’s “problems”, and her dad made her wait extra time before getting married. Ultimately, people do what they want and you can’t stop them.

But I don’t see how allowing rampant no fault divorce makes anything better.

[Josh]

Do you think CAM’s executive head should be an 18 year old school teacher?

No. (I also have reservations about 18 year old teacher's but that is another thread I suppose). I guess I am idealistic enough to think that perhaps we could all do the work God called us to do in the nonprofit world for more in the 50-80 range. And I personally know many who have given their lives in the nonprofit world that are commensurate professionals and are more in the 40-50, if that, range. That is all.

And most plain people think an 18 year old is just fine to be a teacher and don’t think a bachelor’s degree from a worldly college is needed first. In fact, most of us want to expressly avoid that.

$50k-$80k will not get you a competent CEO for an organisation with a $100+ million annual budget.

It seems they were selectively retained. Legal advice wasnt followed when it came to basic institutional legality and integrity, re actually reporting crimes, but was retained on the part of protecting financial interest. Another question is were those on the receiving end receiving similar representation.

CAM doesn’t have a duty to hire people lawyers to then turn around and sue CAM.

The person who abused these victims is JM. CAM was also a victim of JM. Somehow that perspective gets lost here.

The now-fired former executives at CAM also were derelict in their duty and their negligence allowed JM to steal $100,000s of dollars from CAM.

I don't know. But some one could ring BMA and ask. But it isn't the money...I don't think. I wouldnt accuse them of that. It is probably other factors primarily. Distrust of outsiders, feeling like it is taken care of, feeling like only church authority should be involved and not parachurch orgs, it would only stir things up again, etc. And then, based on their own reports it looks like funds are increasing all the more so there really isn't any fiscal pressure. So there would be a lot of risk and fear for little reward instituionally, probably. It is likely a strategic decision primarily. As before, aside from a community swell of pressure, or funding pressure, not going to happen.

Most of CAM’s donors are not interested in trying to transform CAM into a mission agency of BMA, operated to whatever BMA standards are.

Perhaps BMA could run its own mission, relief, and public service agencies. That’s what my denomination does. We don’t have very much to do with CAM and also are the largest plain group in Haiti.

Finally, I simply don’t agree that GRACE somehow has to be involved (and paid) every time there is a scandal. My Bible says nowhere that Christians have to hire GRACE to dig up dirt on their church or nonprofit.