Gender confusion

[Ken]

It is not hated and bigotry to want to protect children from evil influences.

I don’t appreciate the left’s decision to frame traditional biblical morality as “hatred and bigotry”.

There is nothing Biblical at all about the current culture war campaign being waged against trans kids by right-wing media outlets like FOX news, and right wing politicians who are piggybacking on it.

Show me in the Bible where Jesus says we should wield the power of the state to break up families and jail the parents of trans kids and put their children into state-run foster care because we disapprove of the private medical decisions they have made to help their kids. Which is exactly what some states are trying to do to trans kids and their parents.

I expect you would be screaming like a stuck pig if the state was doing anything remotely similar to Amish parents for parenting decisions they make that go against social norms, such as corporal punishment or lack of education.

And yes, the two examples are indeed comparable. Both are about using the coercive power of the state to second guess or overrule the decisions of parents.

[Josh]

It is not hated and bigotry to want to protect children from evil influences.

I don’t appreciate the left’s decision to frame traditional biblical morality as “hatred and bigotry”.

There is nothing Biblical at all about the current culture war campaign being waged against trans kids by right-wing media outlets like FOX news, and right wing politicians who are piggybacking on it.

Show me in the Bible where Jesus says we should wield the power of the state to break up families and jail the parents of trans kids and put their children into state-run foster care because we disapprove of the private medical decisions they have made to help their kids. Which is exactly what some states are trying to do to trans kids and their parents.

Please provide any evidence this has actually happened anywhere. Exactly what parents have had their children removed and put in foster care?

I expect you would be screaming like a stuck pig if the state was doing anything remotely similar to Amish parents for parenting decisions they make that go against social norms, such as corporal punishment or lack of education.

And yes, the two examples are indeed comparable. Both are about using the coercive power of the state to second guess or overrule the decisions of parents.

Corporal punishment is entirely acceptable in mainstream American society. What kind of bubble do you live in that you think it isn’t?

[Ken]

Please provide any evidence this has actually happened anywhere. Exactly what parents have had their children removed and put in foster care?

Here is Idaho which is in the process of passing an anti-trans law that would not only outlaw all medical therapies for trans kids it would criminalize anyone who helps a kid travel out of state for such care, including parents, with prison sentences up to life in prison. What do you actually think is going to happen to a family of four whose parents chooses any kind of gender therapy for one of their children and both parents wind up in prison due to this law? The parents will be in prison and the children will be placed into state foster care. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... sses-house

In Texas the governor is seeking to have any sort of LGBT care declared child abuse and is directing state agencies to investigate such parents for child abuse, which is the first step in getting the children removed from their parents and put into state foster care. That is the only tool that CPS agencies have in their toolbox: https://www.texastribune.org/2022/02/28 ... ild-abuse/

There are currently 14 anti-trans bills under consideration by the state legislature in Tennessee similar to those proposed in Idaho and there are dozens and dozens of similar efforts in other mostly Southern states.

These are the coercive state laws that are being pushed by many Christian conservatives and that are being incited by right-wing media such as FOX News. Are you oblivious to that fact?

Explain how any of that is based on the teachings of Jesus.

Corporal punishment is entirely acceptable in mainstream American society. What kind of bubble do you live in that you think it isn’t?

Corporal punishment in schools is now illegal in the vast majority of states and public opposition to corporal punishment in schools has fallen dramatically over time. Most Americans oppose it.

Corporal punishment in the home is indeed legal in all 50 states but support for it is constantly falling. Yes it is still legal, but parents who engage in corporal punishment could soon be in the minority and efforts to outlaw it or treat it as child abuse could well emerge as they have in Europe. I think you well know this.

The point is that in both hypothetical examples, the state would be using the coercive power of the criminal justice system to overrule the decisions of parents. It is entirely inconsistent to favor criminalization of parenting decisions in one case but not the other.

There are a lot of things that I disapprove of in how some very conservative Christian groups choose to raise their children. Mainly with respect to corporation punishment and curtailing of education. But I respect their rights of those parents to make such decisions. Just like I respect the rights of parents to make decisions for their children when it comes to transgender care and any other medical care, with limited exceptions like the withholding of life-saving medical care for religious reasons.

[Josh]

Please provide any evidence this has actually happened anywhere. Exactly what parents have had their children removed and put in foster care?

Please provide a single example of a parent who had their children taken from them and put in foster care.

Explain how any of that is based on the teachings of Jesus.

Hurting and harming little children was something Jesus said merits being executed by drowning.

Corporal punishment is entirely acceptable in mainstream American society. What kind of bubble do you live in that you think it isn’t?

Corporal punishment in schools is now illegal in the vast majority of states and public opposition to corporal punishment in schools has fallen dramatically over time. Most Americans oppose it.[/quote]

Schools are not families or homes. Most Americans do not oppose parents being allow to parent their children.

Particularly, immigrant groups overwhelmingly use corporal punishment, across a wide diverse range of groups. When I was a foster parent in California I had to learn in classes about cross cultural issues that non-white cultures have very different ideas about acceptable levels of corporal punishment and the importance of not imposing white, upper-middle-class cultural values on such people.

Corporal punishment in the home is indeed legal in all 50 states but support for it is constantly falling. Yes it is still legal, but parents who engage in corporal punishment could soon be in the minority and efforts to outlaw it or treat it as child abuse could well emerge as they have in Europe. I think you well know this.

I’m quite aware NZ and Wales have outlawed normal parenting (including how the Bible teaches to raise children).

The point is that in both hypothetical examples, the state would be using the coercive power of the criminal justice system to overrule the decisions of parents. It is entirely inconsistent to favor criminalization of parenting decisions in one case but not the other.

Comparing parents engaging in normal child discipline as has been normal for thousands of years with a situation like Jaron Bloshinsky, whose mother indoctrinated at age 4 that he was actually a girl and got a popular TV show from doing so, is ridiculous.

Just like I respect the rights of parents to make decisions for their children when it comes to transgender care and any other medical care, with limited exceptions like the withholding of life-saving medical care for religious reasons.

And there is your “exception”. You do know the lgbt crowd claims pushing transsexualism on children is “life-saving medical care”, right?

[temporal1]

Social Worker Secretly Began Gender Transition for 13-Year-Old Girl in Maine Public School: Mom

https://www.themainewire.com/2022/12/so ... chool-mom/

This report includes a painful video of the child’s mother addressing the school.
For most, presenting a complaint or making suggestions like this is “too much.” For most, it’s difficult.
For many, just showing up to witness, listen, is beyond their experience. They’re intimidated.

The question is, for every parent speaking, how many remain hurt+frustrated in silence?

School board meetings are not level playing grounds. The offcials present often do this as part of their living. Usually protected by unions. They may be bored, apathetic, thinking of what they’re plans are for after the meeting, etc. Not much to lose.
"Comme-ci comme ça"

For parents, it’s about their hearts, their homes. Priority investments.

[Outsider]

Szd, is Outsider's response dehumanizing? What is the proper reaction to this story?

What's "dehumanizing" is stumping for Munchausen by Proxy syndrome and calling it "lifesaving medical care". The "gender identity" movement is just "I must be the center of attention" joined to "I must dominate everyone around me".

Sometimes even Jesus called a serpent a serpent.

[Outsider]

https://www.heritage.org/gender/comment ... e-evidence

[GaryK]

So the Feds are now investigating school districts that choose to remove books dealing with sexual orientation and transgender issues.

The U.S. Education Department’s civil rights enforcement arm has launched an investigation into a North Texas school district whose superintendent was secretly recorded ordering librarians to remove LGBTQ-themed library books.

Education and legal experts say the federal probe of the Granbury Independent School District — which stemmed from a complaint by the American Civil Liberties Union of Texas and reporting by NBC News, ProPublica and The Texas Tribune — appears to be the first such investigation explicitly tied to the nationwide movement to ban school library books dealing with sexuality and gender.

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/12/20 ... il-rights/

[Ken]

So the Feds are now investigating school districts that choose to remove books dealing with sexual orientation and transgender issues.

The U.S. Education Department’s civil rights enforcement arm has launched an investigation into a North Texas school district whose superintendent was secretly recorded ordering librarians to remove LGBTQ-themed library books.

Education and legal experts say the federal probe of the Granbury Independent School District — which stemmed from a complaint by the American Civil Liberties Union of Texas and reporting by NBC News, ProPublica and The Texas Tribune — appears to be the first such investigation explicitly tied to the nationwide movement to ban school library books dealing with sexuality and gender.

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/12/20 ... il-rights/

I thought conservatives were against censorship. Opposition to censorship in schools and universities is the basis of Trump's new campaign.

[GaryK]

So the Feds are now investigating school districts that choose to remove books dealing with sexual orientation and transgender issues.

The U.S. Education Department’s civil rights enforcement arm has launched an investigation into a North Texas school district whose superintendent was secretly recorded ordering librarians to remove LGBTQ-themed library books.

Education and legal experts say the federal probe of the Granbury Independent School District — which stemmed from a complaint by the American Civil Liberties Union of Texas and reporting by NBC News, ProPublica and The Texas Tribune — appears to be the first such investigation explicitly tied to the nationwide movement to ban school library books dealing with sexuality and gender.

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/12/20 ... il-rights/

I thought conservatives were against censorship. Opposition to censorship in schools and universities is the basis of Trump's new campaign.

I wasn't aware that this article was about conservatives and Trump. I thought it was about the Feds, for the first time ever, investigating a school district for removing books from their libraries.