Then they came for the Amish ...

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
steve-in-kville

Re: Then they came for the Amish ...

Post by steve-in-kville »

RZehr wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:32 pm
steve-in-kville wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:17 pm
Ken wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:00 am

Yet, the state will retract its prohibition on marriage provided both partners are over the age of sixty-five, or are younger but can prove infertility.

I know of a situation like this. Old enough that no one cared.
I think it is still immoral.
Yeah, kinda. They were cousins. Neither his church or her church would marry them.
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Josh

Re: Then they came for the Amish ...

Post by Josh »

Personally I don't think for most people that marriage is a bright line that prevents or allows them to have sex.
And this is, essentially, a consequence of widespread birth control.

God’s design and plan for man is that men and women should be married to each other before having children. And God’s design is also that sexual activity, generally speaking, results in having children.

It is a sign of a godless, immoral society when these obvious biological realities are ignored and attempted to be removed.
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steve-in-kville

Re: Then they came for the Amish ...

Post by steve-in-kville »

Josh wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 6:36 am
God’s design and plan for man is that men and women should be married to each other before having children. And God’s design is also that sexual activity, generally speaking, results in having children.
I agree with Josh's comment here. That said, and I am half joking yet half serious, what about when the wife's biological clock runs out? Should a couple stop sexual activity?

I welcome any and all comments on this.... ;)
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Szdfan

Re: Then they came for the Amish ...

Post by Szdfan »

steve-in-kville wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 6:46 am
Josh wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 6:36 am
God’s design and plan for man is that men and women should be married to each other before having children. And God’s design is also that sexual activity, generally speaking, results in having children.
I agree with Josh's comment here. That said, and I am half joking yet half serious, what about when the wife's biological clock runs out? Should a couple stop sexual activity?

I welcome any and all comments on this.... ;)
Or couples that are infertile?
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mike

Re: Then they came for the Amish ...

Post by mike »

Szdfan wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:09 am
steve-in-kville wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 6:46 am
Josh wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 6:36 am
God’s design and plan for man is that men and women should be married to each other before having children. And God’s design is also that sexual activity, generally speaking, results in having children.
I agree with Josh's comment here. That said, and I am half joking yet half serious, what about when the wife's biological clock runs out? Should a couple stop sexual activity?

I welcome any and all comments on this.... ;)
Or couples that are infertile?
Do we really need to do this, gentlemen? Most of the time, sexual activity does not result in a pregnancy. Sexual activity that does not result in pregnancy is not by definition unethical. Pleasure, joy, and fulfillment in marriage is also one of the purposes of sexual activity. What is unethical is sexual activity outside of marriage as defined by God.
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steve-in-kville

Re: Then they came for the Amish ...

Post by steve-in-kville »

mike wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:18 am
Do we really need to do this, gentlemen? Most of the time, sexual activity does not result in a pregnancy. Sexual activity that does not result in pregnancy is not by definition unethical. Pleasure, joy, and fulfillment in marriage is also one of the purposes of sexual activity. What is unethical is sexual activity outside of marriage as defined by God.
I'm respectfully trying to make a point. There's many urban (rural?) legends when it comes to conservative anabaptists and their beliefs and values toward human sexuality. I was trying to bring that to light and be amusing at the same time.

It was either too much coffee or not enough that fueled my question ;)
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mike

Re: Then they came for the Amish ...

Post by mike »

steve-in-kville wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:34 am
mike wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:18 am
Do we really need to do this, gentlemen? Most of the time, sexual activity does not result in a pregnancy. Sexual activity that does not result in pregnancy is not by definition unethical. Pleasure, joy, and fulfillment in marriage is also one of the purposes of sexual activity. What is unethical is sexual activity outside of marriage as defined by God.
I'm respectfully trying to make a point. There's many urban (rural?) legends when it comes to conservative anabaptists and their beliefs and values toward human sexuality. I was trying to bring that to light and be amusing at the same time.

It was either too much coffee or not enough that fueled my question ;)
It's fine. I was only responding to the half serious part of the question!
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Szdfan

Re: Then they came for the Amish ...

Post by Szdfan »

mike wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:40 am
steve-in-kville wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:34 am
mike wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:18 am
Do we really need to do this, gentlemen? Most of the time, sexual activity does not result in a pregnancy. Sexual activity that does not result in pregnancy is not by definition unethical. Pleasure, joy, and fulfillment in marriage is also one of the purposes of sexual activity. What is unethical is sexual activity outside of marriage as defined by God.
I'm respectfully trying to make a point. There's many urban (rural?) legends when it comes to conservative anabaptists and their beliefs and values toward human sexuality. I was trying to bring that to light and be amusing at the same time.

It was either too much coffee or not enough that fueled my question ;)
It's fine. I was only responding to the half serious part of the question!
I think most of us recognize that sex has a number of purposes and it's not just about procreation. But it's always fun to tell Josh that he's wrong.
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Ken
Posts: 21863
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
Location: Washington State
Affiliation: former MCUSA

Re: Then they came for the Amish ...

Post by Ken »

Szdfan wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 10:35 am
mike wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:40 am
steve-in-kville wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:34 am

I'm respectfully trying to make a point. There's many urban (rural?) legends when it comes to conservative anabaptists and their beliefs and values toward human sexuality. I was trying to bring that to light and be amusing at the same time.

It was either too much coffee or not enough that fueled my question ;)
It's fine. I was only responding to the half serious part of the question!
I think most of us recognize that sex has a number of purposes and it's not just about procreation. But it's always fun to tell Josh that he's wrong.
In Josh's church do the bishops monitor women's menstrual cycles and only allow sex during the fertility window from 5 days before ovulation until the day after? And then only if no birth control is being used?
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
nett
Posts: 1953
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:22 pm
Affiliation: Midwest Fellowship

Re: Then they came for the Amish ...

Post by nett »

Ken wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 11:04 am
Szdfan wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 10:35 am
mike wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:40 am

It's fine. I was only responding to the half serious part of the question!
I think most of us recognize that sex has a number of purposes and it's not just about procreation. But it's always fun to tell Josh that he's wrong.
In Josh's church do the bishops monitor women's menstrual cycles and only allow sex during the fertility window from 5 days before ovulation until the day after? And then only if no birth control is being used?
afaik, Josh's church doesn't have an official teaching on birth control.

Also, your arguments are dumb, and you know it. There is obvious difference between sex as God intended it, and trying to actively prevent conception, while still getting all the carnal benefits of the act.

Ken, do you advise your daughters to be on birth control?
Last edited by nett on Fri Dec 16, 2022 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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