Then they came for the Amish ...

[Sliceitup]

One short answer to Sliceitup:
I have just read your linked article:
https://www.beliefnet.com/news/2005/02/ ... eople.aspx
From that I suppose that Krehbiel was miffed about the SCOTUS decision from 1972:
"In 1972, noting their "excellent record as law-abiding and generally self-sufficient members of society," the Supreme Court allowed the Amish to take their children out of school after eighth grade."
Krehbiel seeing school education as an adjustment to standard American values and complaining that Amish were allowed to stay unadjusted.
My interest in the matter is that people in general ought to keep the right to deviate from standard values and to form their own "subculture" or "parallel society". This is, for me, not a particular matter of the Amish, but a general matter.

I think that we can distinguish between two kinds of problems. Some problems are inherent in the idea of a subculture or a parallel society. In such cases leaving the community will inevitably be hard for both sides (the staying and the leaving), psychologically and often financially. But I think that is a price to be paid. (In fact, 10-15 % of each generation leave the Amish community; that's why I deny a general "coercion".)

The second kind of problems is not inherent in the idea of a subculture or parallel society. For example this type of incestuous rape is described often for isolated farmer homesteads here in Germany without a religious background. But it could not as easily happen with the Hutterites where families don't live that isolated, even if the Hutterites are ideologically not that much different from the Amish.
I am open to all proposals for solutions of those problems of the second kind. My personal impression is that the Amish (as described in this article) were too self-assured, believing that living in a next-to-holy community is a kind of shelter against sinful addictions. So there ought to more open speech about sins, addictions and what can be done about them, as a normal part of the human condition. (Women should not be left alone with some herbal medicine for to diminish their partner's sex drive.)

Thank you for your response. In light of the last few sentences you wrote, what can be done to ensure this open speech happens? How do we help these women who have to resort to such things like herbal medicines to try and keep rape from happening?

[RZehr]

How do herbal medicines keep rape from happening?

[Ken]

How do herbal medicines keep rape from happening?

I assume it is a reverse viagra effect.

[Bootstrap]

I think it's incredibly hard for outsiders to know the Amish or the Hutterites, much less give them expert advice.

[Josh]

One short answer to Sliceitup:
I have just read your linked article:
https://www.beliefnet.com/news/2005/02/ ... eople.aspx
From that I suppose that Krehbiel was miffed about the SCOTUS decision from 1972:
"In 1972, noting their "excellent record as law-abiding and generally self-sufficient members of society," the Supreme Court allowed the Amish to take their children out of school after eighth grade."
Krehbiel seeing school education as an adjustment to standard American values and complaining that Amish were allowed to stay unadjusted.
My interest in the matter is that people in general ought to keep the right to deviate from standard values and to form their own "subculture" or "parallel society". This is, for me, not a particular matter of the Amish, but a general matter.

I think that we can distinguish between two kinds of problems. Some problems are inherent in the idea of a subculture or a parallel society. In such cases leaving the community will inevitably be hard for both sides (the staying and the leaving), psychologically and often financially. But I think that is a price to be paid. (In fact, 10-15 % of each generation leave the Amish community; that's why I deny a general "coercion".)

The second kind of problems is not inherent in the idea of a subculture or parallel society. For example this type of incestuous rape is described often for isolated farmer homesteads here in Germany without a religious background. But it could not as easily happen with the Hutterites where families don't live that isolated, even if the Hutterites are ideologically not that much different from the Amish.
I am open to all proposals for solutions of those problems of the second kind. My personal impression is that the Amish (as described in this article) were too self-assured, believing that living in a next-to-holy community is a kind of shelter against sinful addictions. So there ought to more open speech about sins, addictions and what can be done about them, as a normal part of the human condition. (Women should not be left alone with some herbal medicine for to diminish their partner's sex drive.)

Thank you for your response. In light of the last few sentences you wrote, what can be done to ensure this open speech happens? How do we help these women who have to resort to such things like herbal medicines to try and keep rape from happening?

Considering our mainstream American culture has a much worse rape problem than the Amish do - I have read 1 in 3 women gets sexually assaulted in America, and 1 in 6 gets raped when going to college - perhaps we should be asking the Amish how to help our culture with its terrible rape and sexual assault problem, not the other way around.

In particular, college campuses seem extremely unsafe - could it be that the Amish are wise to stay away from them? I would never send my daughter somewhere where 16% of girls are being raped.

[Szdfan]

How do herbal medicines keep rape from happening?

I assume it is a reverse viagra effect.

"Herbal medicines stop rape" is one of the more bonkers takes I've seen on this forum.

[Sliceitup]

How do herbal medicines keep rape from happening?

I assume it is a reverse viagra effect.

"Herbal medicines stop rape" is one of the more bonkers takes I've seen on this forum.

It’s in reference to the article I shared which mentioned multiple Amish women saying that in response to their husband/son molesting/raping people, they would give men an herbal medication that was supposed to suppress their desires.

[nett]

I think it's incredibly hard for outsiders to know the Amish or the Hutterites, much less give them expert advice.

100% agree. Unfortunately, I think the same goes for a lot of ex-amish, who assume they know everything about all Amish everywhere.

[Szdfan]

I assume it is a reverse viagra effect.

"Herbal medicines stop rape" is one of the more bonkers takes I've seen on this forum.

It’s in reference to the article I shared which mentioned multiple Amish women saying that in response to their husband/son molesting/raping people, they would give men an herbal medication that was supposed to suppress their desires.

Huh. I've heard of Amish girls being given an abortifacient (pennyroyal tea) after sexual assault. The fact that herbal remedies could even be considered to prevent rape and incest is a sign that something is significantly wrong within a culture.

[nett]

"Herbal medicines stop rape" is one of the more bonkers takes I've seen on this forum.

It’s in reference to the article I shared which mentioned multiple Amish women saying that in response to their husband/son molesting/raping people, they would give men an herbal medication that was supposed to suppress their desires.

Huh. I've heard of Amish girls being given an abortifacient (pennyroyal tea) after sexual assault. The fact that herbal remedies could even be considered to prevent rape and incest is a sign that something is significantly wrong within a culture.

The use of herbal remedies to reduce sexual assaults are rare, isolated incidents, and the vast majority of Amish would not support that at all. I had the opportunity to talk to a couple who is one of the Amish boards that works with survivors and advises the state in dealing with offenders. They had heard of this through the grape vine, but had never seen it first hand in the 100s of victims they have personally worked with (some of who lived in their homes).

Now, consider this statement:

The fact that hormone therapy is pushed as a treatment on confused children is a sign that something is significantly wrong within a culture.

The difference is that people like you openly defend the sexual abuse in your culture.