Then they came for the Amish ...

[Soloist]

Is it too much to ask that people can have differing political and religious views (large or small) but still support survivors? Why does one person’s support get thrown out just because they don’t see eye to eye?

As long as that support doesn’t come at the cost of belief, I’d agree. The problem is that many of the high profile victims end up seeking to change more then just what caused the abuse to happen in the first place. I’ve known several ex-Amish and children who left over abuse or sexual abuse. None of them are active in trying to change the Amish as a group and focus on the positives that some Amish have despite their differences they would disagree with.

[mike]

Is it too much to ask that people can have differing political and religious views (large or small) but still support survivors? Why does one person’s support get thrown out just because they don’t see eye to eye?

It shouldn't be, but there are complicating factors. A religious or cultural or local or family group of some kind may wish to support survivors who were part of that group when abuse happened, but it is possible that survivors associate that abuse so thoroughly with that group that they are not able to receive support from it even when/if it is offered. Amish or Mennonite people for example should understand this about abuse survivors who leave their groups. The abused person may feel the need to go outside of the group to be safe and understood.

I also think that from the perspective of people leaving a group because of abuse situations, they should try to understand that the group may want to support them as a victim of abuse, but is conflicted by not wanting to support the victim's unrelated choices that they strongly disagree with.

[Ken]

Is it too much to ask that people can have differing political and religious views (large or small) but still support survivors? Why does one person’s support get thrown out just because they don’t see eye to eye?

As long as that support doesn’t come at the cost of belief, I’d agree. The problem is that many of the high profile victims end up seeking to change more then just what caused the abuse to happen in the first place. I’ve known several ex-Amish and children who left over abuse or sexual abuse. None of them are active in trying to change the Amish as a group and focus on the positives that some Amish have despite their differences they would disagree with.

The Amish are different from other groups in that they are all-inclusive and are involved in every aspect of the community's life.

One can walk away from say the Catholic church and basically nothing changes except what you do with your life between 10 and 12 on Sunday morning. Your family is still your family and they will still welcome and talk to you. your friends and neighbors are still your friends and neighbors, your co-workers and colleagues are still the same. Life basically goes on. In fact, plenty of self-identified Catholics do little more than show up to mass on Christmas Eve and Easter and still consider themselves Catholic.

If, however you are Amish and you get crosswise with the religion for abuse or any other reason. You are cut off from your entire world and everyone you care about. Your siblings, friends, colleagues, everyone. And it is natural to still feel invested in your former life, especially as most everyone close to you including your siblings are still living it. So staying engaged in Amish business and/or trying to change things isn't just random tilting at windmills like an ex-Catholic grumbling about the Pope. It is directly about the lives of people you care about like your brothers and sisters and former best friends. So it is very very personal.

That might explain why some former Amish are still so invested in Amish issues after they have left the church.

[ken_sylvania]

Is it too much to ask that people can have differing political and religious views (large or small) but still support survivors? Why does one person’s support get thrown out just because they don’t see eye to eye?

As long as that support doesn’t come at the cost of belief, I’d agree. The problem is that many of the high profile victims end up seeking to change more then just what caused the abuse to happen in the first place. I’ve known several ex-Amish and children who left over abuse or sexual abuse. None of them are active in trying to change the Amish as a group and focus on the positives that some Amish have despite their differences they would disagree with.

The Amish are different from other groups in that they are all-inclusive and are involved in every aspect of the community's life.

One can walk away from say the Catholic church and basically nothing changes except what you do with your life between 10 and 12 on Sunday morning. Your family is still your family and they will still welcome and talk to you. your friends and neighbors are still your friends and neighbors, your co-workers and colleagues are still the same. Life basically goes on. In fact, plenty of self-identified Catholics do little more than show up to mass on Christmas Eve and Easter and still consider themselves Catholic.

If, however you are Amish and you get crosswise with the religion for abuse or any other reason. You are cut off from your entire world and everyone you care about. Your siblings, friends, colleagues, everyone. And it is natural to still feel invested in your former life, especially as most everyone close to you including your siblings are still living it. So staying engaged in Amish business and/or trying to change things isn't just random tilting at windmills like an ex-Catholic grumbling about the Pope. It is directly about the lives of people you care about like your brothers and sisters and former best friends.

That might explain why some former Amish are still so invested in Amish issues after they have left the church.

If this was actually intended to be a relevant response to what Soloist wrote, I can't help but wonder if you even read and comprehended the post you replied to.

[mike]

If, however you are Amish and you get crosswise with the religion for abuse or any other reason. You are cut off from your entire world and everyone you care about. Your siblings, friends, colleagues, everyone. And it is natural to still feel invested in your former life, especially as most everyone close to you including your siblings are still living it. So staying engaged in Amish business and/or trying to change things isn't just random tilting at windmills like an ex-Catholic grumbling about the Pope. It is directly about the lives of people you care about like your brothers and sisters and former best friends.

That might explain why some former Amish are still so invested in Amish issues after they have left the church.

These things do make it hard to leave the Amish. Still, there are many incentives to leave as well. There are plenty of churches that welcome ex-Amish with open arms; indeed, many congregations seem to thrive on appealing to them in particular. And you don't actually lose your family. You can still be around them, and the awkwardness can be all on their part. You can be a sort of celebrity in some ways; you can start a blog or write a book related to the Amish because you have inside knowledge. Not to mention the incredible new-found freedom of lifestyle you can enjoy. Some of these things explain why so many constantly leave the Amish. This doesn't nearly make up for their natural population growth, but still, people are constantly leaving.

My uncle just left. I don't think it was some kind of insurmountable mountain for his family.

[Soloist]

The Amish are different from other groups in that they are all-inclusive and are involved in every aspect of the community's life.

One can walk away from say the Catholic church and basically nothing changes except what you do with your life between 10 and 12 on Sunday morning. Your family is still your family and they will still welcome and talk to you. your friends and neighbors are still your friends and neighbors, your co-workers and colleagues are still the same. Life basically goes on. In fact, plenty of self-identified Catholics do little more than show up to mass on Christmas Eve and Easter and still consider themselves Catholic.

If, however you are Amish and you get crosswise with the religion for abuse or any other reason. You are cut off from your entire world and everyone you care about. Your siblings, friends, colleagues, everyone. And it is natural to still feel invested in your former life, especially as most everyone close to you including your siblings are still living it. So staying engaged in Amish business and/or trying to change things isn't just random tilting at windmills like an ex-Catholic grumbling about the Pope. It is directly about the lives of people you care about like your brothers and sisters and former best friends.

That might explain why some former Amish are still so invested in Amish issues after they have left the church.

I think you know that this is a doctrinal stance. Also no one is forcing them to join the church and they don’t get shunned if they are not members in the first place. The Catholics have no control of its body and who partakes in “her” church. The conservative Anabaptists believe differently

[Ken]

As long as that support doesn’t come at the cost of belief, I’d agree. The problem is that many of the high profile victims end up seeking to change more then just what caused the abuse to happen in the first place. I’ve known several ex-Amish and children who left over abuse or sexual abuse. None of them are active in trying to change the Amish as a group and focus on the positives that some Amish have despite their differences they would disagree with.

The Amish are different from other groups in that they are all-inclusive and are involved in every aspect of the community's life.

One can walk away from say the Catholic church and basically nothing changes except what you do with your life between 10 and 12 on Sunday morning. Your family is still your family and they will still welcome and talk to you. your friends and neighbors are still your friends and neighbors, your co-workers and colleagues are still the same. Life basically goes on. In fact, plenty of self-identified Catholics do little more than show up to mass on Christmas Eve and Easter and still consider themselves Catholic.

If, however you are Amish and you get crosswise with the religion for abuse or any other reason. You are cut off from your entire world and everyone you care about. Your siblings, friends, colleagues, everyone. And it is natural to still feel invested in your former life, especially as most everyone close to you including your siblings are still living it. So staying engaged in Amish business and/or trying to change things isn't just random tilting at windmills like an ex-Catholic grumbling about the Pope. It is directly about the lives of people you care about like your brothers and sisters and former best friends.

That might explain why some former Amish are still so invested in Amish issues after they have left the church.

If this was actually intended to be a relevant response to what Soloist wrote, I can't help but wonder if you even read and comprehended the post you replied to.

Soloist was commenting on why some high-profile Amish abuse victims are so invested in criticizing and/or changing aspects of the Amish church and life even though they have left the church. And being critical of them for wanting to change more about Amish life than just how they address abuse. I'm just providing commentary on why it is possible that ex-Amish are so invested in changing the community even after they have left. And I would also suggest that some ex-Amish abuse victims probably think that there are MANY aspects of Amish life that lead to abuse so it goes way beyond whatever bureaucratic rules are in place to deal with abusers.

[Sliceitup]

What I really mean was not about how Amish or Ex Amish people support survivors, but about people on this forum accusing others of having an agenda. Is there an idealogical purity test that one must pass on this forum in order to be allowed to speak up about survivors?

[Soloist]

What I really mean was not about how Amish or Ex Amish people support survivors, but about people on this forum accusing others of having an agenda. Is there an idealogical purity test that one must pass on this forum in order to be allowed to speak up about survivors?

Yes! You have to be a flat earther. I personally feel like accusations of agenda tend to be overstated. There are only a few people here that do that and while they are quite active, do not represent the forum or the broad circles of conservatives or liberals.

[MaxPC]

Once more we see the usual defence of liberal msm "hate based articles" aka "hit pieces". Sad that Emerson is co-opted to support such hateful writings. I am sure he would not approve. Criticism is conducted amicably between civilised individuals. Persecution is the repetitive, aggressive targeting of an individual or groups. The OP article is only one of an entire catalog of attacks on the Amish, the Mennonites, the Hutterites, the Catholics, etc that takes place in MSM-land; a clear pattern of bias and persecution. The one commonality among these groups is that all of them have a belief system that excludes homosexual behaviors.

That wasn't a MSM article. It was an article by a Mennonite posted on a Mennonite web site and addressed to other Mennonites.

Once again, Ken, you are misreading. I am specifically referencing MSM patterns and those who are zealous to defend such tabloid writings. In haste I may have left out a word or two but the appropriate response would be to ask me for a clarification.