Then they came for the Amish ...

[mike]

The author of the article in the OP states:

I would love to see much more coverage centering the voices of Amish and Plain Mennonite survivors who have been shunned for reporting sexual violence and child abuse.

I have an uncle who is an Amish deacon who reported one of his church members for child sexual abuse, a man who then served a 10-year sentence. Yes, my uncle was criticized by some fellow Amish for doing this. This speaks very poorly for those people in my opinion. However he was NOT shunned, and he remains Amish and in his role as a deacon to this day.

[mike]

...you can convince the Supreme Court, police departments, social workers and a sizable number of Americans that “freedom of religion” means denying children education and medical care and denying survivors of sexual and domestic violence access to life-saving services and safety nets.

I don't like lumping all these things together in pejorative language that basically does support the idea that this is a broad slap against the Amish. The author is accusing the Amish (and the government by complicity) of denying their children education and medical care. These are strong critiques that Amish (and others) would vehemently disagree with. It sounds as though the author wants to shut down Amish schools and force Amish kids to go to public schools. And the implication that Amish children are being denied medical care is odd. In what way? And what does the author propose to do about it?

[Ken]

The author of the article in the OP states:

I would love to see much more coverage centering the voices of Amish and Plain Mennonite survivors who have been shunned for reporting sexual violence and child abuse.

I have an uncle who is an Amish deacon who reported one of his church members for child sexual abuse, and who then served a 10-year sentence. Yes, my uncle was criticized by some fellow Amish for doing this. This speaks very poorly for those people in my opinion. However he was NOT shunned, and he remains Amish and in his role as a deacon to this day.

Since she is referring to "survivors" I interpreted that to refer to women and girls who reported their own sex abuse and were disbelieved. I would suspect that most survivors who have left the church over abuse have indeed been shunned.

[mike]

The author of the article in the OP states:

I would love to see much more coverage centering the voices of Amish and Plain Mennonite survivors who have been shunned for reporting sexual violence and child abuse.

I have an uncle who is an Amish deacon who reported one of his church members for child sexual abuse, and who then served a 10-year sentence. Yes, my uncle was criticized by some fellow Amish for doing this. This speaks very poorly for those people in my opinion. However he was NOT shunned, and he remains Amish and in his role as a deacon to this day.

Since she is referring to "survivors" I interpreted that to refer to women and girls who reported their own sex abuse and were disbelieved. I would suspect that most survivors who have left the church over abuse have indeed been shunned.

I don't doubt that, although possibly the Amish would say that they were shunned just as anyone who leaves the church would have been, rather for reporting their abuse. My parents left the Amish and are shunned to this day, but it was purely over religious differences. If my Amish uncle had left the church, he would have been shunned for the same reason, not because of reporting abuse.

[mike]

And some more critique.

high-control sect of conservative and incestuous white Christians with violent disciplinary systems

How is this kind of wild language helpful to either the Amish and their problems or the Mennonites that the author is criticizing as idealizing the Amish? Almost every word of this phrase is loaded with exaggeration and emotional appeal. I know many ex-Amish who have issues with the Amish church who would be puzzled by these characterizations. I know exactly what she means by these terms but I do not think they are a helpful way to frame the problems of the Amish.

[Ken]

...you can convince the Supreme Court, police departments, social workers and a sizable number of Americans that “freedom of religion” means denying children education and medical care and denying survivors of sexual and domestic violence access to life-saving services and safety nets.

I don't like lumping all these things together in pejorative language that basically does support the idea that this is a broad slap against the Amish. The author is accusing the Amish (and the government by complicity) of denying their children education and medical care. These are strong critiques that Amish (and others) would vehemently disagree with. It sounds as though the author wants to shut down Amish schools and force Amish kids to go to public schools. And the implication that Amish children are being denied medical care is odd. In what way? And what does the author propose to do about it.

If you are a young Amish girl and your dream is to become a doctor or nurse, will you be allowed to pursue that educational path? Or will it be "denied" to you?

What about if you are an Amish family and are supportive of your daughter pursuing that path? Will you be able to encourage and assist your daughter to follow that educational path? Or will you be expected by your Amish community to deny that educational path to your daughter if you want to remain in good standing with your church?

All Amish children are indeed denied educational opportunities if they and their families want to remain Amish. They have no choice. That is completely different from saying that Amish schools should be shut down and Amish children be forced to go to public schools. Maybe Amish schools could simply do better and maybe the Amish could provide more educational opportunities within their own community. Many other religious communities do that very thing.

[Soloist]

If you are a young Amish girl and your dream is to become a doctor or nurse, will you be allowed to pursue that educational path? Or will it be "denied" to you?

What about if you are an Amish family and are supportive of your daughter pursuing that path? Will you be able to encourage and assist your daughter to follow that educational path? Or will you be expected by your Amish community to deny that educational path to your daughter if you want to remain in good standing with your church?

All Amish children are indeed denied educational opportunities if they and their families want to remain Amish. They have no choice. That is completely different from saying that Amish schools should be shut down and Amish children be forced to go to public schools. Maybe Amish schools could simply do better and maybe the Amish could provide more educational opportunities within their own community. Many other religious communities do that very thing.

They always have a choice. Being female has nothing to do with the anti-college stance though. Even in the “conservative Mennonites” young men or women are strongly discouraged from pursuing higher education and I think for good reason.

[mike]

...you can convince the Supreme Court, police departments, social workers and a sizable number of Americans that “freedom of religion” means denying children education and medical care and denying survivors of sexual and domestic violence access to life-saving services and safety nets.

I don't like lumping all these things together in pejorative language that basically does support the idea that this is a broad slap against the Amish. The author is accusing the Amish (and the government by complicity) of denying their children education and medical care. These are strong critiques that Amish (and others) would vehemently disagree with. It sounds as though the author wants to shut down Amish schools and force Amish kids to go to public schools. And the implication that Amish children are being denied medical care is odd. In what way? And what does the author propose to do about it.

If you are a young Amish girl and your dream is to become a doctor or nurse, will you be allowed to pursue that educational path? Or will it be "denied" to you?

What about if you are an Amish family and are supportive of your daughter pursuing that path? Will you be able to encourage and assist your daughter to follow that educational path? Or will you be expected by your Amish community to deny that educational path to your daughter if you want to remain in good standing with your church?

All Amish children are indeed denied educational opportunities if they and their families want to remain Amish. They have no choice. That is completely different from saying that Amish schools should be shut down and Amish children be forced to go to public schools. Maybe Amish schools could simply do better and maybe the Amish could provide more educational opportunities within their own community.

Oh. So what is meant by "denying children education" is simply that they are "denied certain educational opportunities." Well, yes, of course.

A person is free to leave the Amish any time they so choose. People do it all the time. But those parents and children who choose to remain Amish must of course abide by the rules of the Amish church. Yes, this denies them certain career paths. Just like in my church, we deny our children the opportunity to learn trades that we don't want to be involved in. We won't teach you how to distill alcohol, and we won't let you be a professional athlete. So you could say we are "denying our children education." OK then, yes we are. And we like it that way, and I sure hope that we aren't forced to change that. I wouldn't draw the lines where the Amish do, but I support their right to draw lines in educational opportunities that they want for their children. I hope you support that too.

[Ken]

I don't like lumping all these things together in pejorative language that basically does support the idea that this is a broad slap against the Amish. The author is accusing the Amish (and the government by complicity) of denying their children education and medical care. These are strong critiques that Amish (and others) would vehemently disagree with. It sounds as though the author wants to shut down Amish schools and force Amish kids to go to public schools. And the implication that Amish children are being denied medical care is odd. In what way? And what does the author propose to do about it.

If you are a young Amish girl and your dream is to become a doctor or nurse, will you be allowed to pursue that educational path? Or will it be "denied" to you?

What about if you are an Amish family and are supportive of your daughter pursuing that path? Will you be able to encourage and assist your daughter to follow that educational path? Or will you be expected by your Amish community to deny that educational path to your daughter if you want to remain in good standing with your church?

All Amish children are indeed denied educational opportunities if they and their families want to remain Amish. They have no choice. That is completely different from saying that Amish schools should be shut down and Amish children be forced to go to public schools. Maybe Amish schools could simply do better and maybe the Amish could provide more educational opportunities within their own community.

Oh. So what is meant by "denying children education" is simply that they are "denied certain educational opportunities." Well, yes, of course.

A person is free to leave the Amish any time they so choose. People do it all the time. But those parents and children who choose to remain Amish must of course abide by the rules of the Amish church. Yes, this denies them certain career paths. Just like in my church, we deny our children the opportunity to learn trades that we don't want to be involved in. We won't teach you how to distill alcohol, and we won't let you be a professional athlete. So you could say we are "denying our children education." OK then, yes we are. And we like it that way, and I sure hope that we aren't forced to change that. I wouldn't draw the lines where the Amish do, but I support their right to draw lines in educational opportunities that they want for their children. I hope you support that too.

I think the Amish are free to do whatever they want just like all other parents in this country who are free to choose or pursue whatever forms of education they want for their children.

I'm simply pointing out that criticizing the Amish for restricting educational opportunities for their children is not the same thing as saying that Amish schools should be shut down and Amish children forced into the public school system.

To paraphrase Ralph Waldo Emmerson, don't mistake criticism with persecution.

[MaxPC]

Once more we see the usual defence of liberal msm "hate based articles" aka "hit pieces". Sad that Emerson is co-opted to support such hateful writings. I am sure he would not approve. Criticism is conducted amicably between civilised individuals. Persecution is the repetitive, aggressive targeting of an individual or groups. The OP article is only one of an entire catalog of attacks on the Amish, the Mennonites, the Hutterites, the Catholics, etc that takes place in MSM-land; a clear pattern of bias and persecution. The one commonality among these groups is that all of them have a belief system that excludes homosexual behaviors.