Then they came for the Amish ...

[Josh]

Some Amish definitely need exposed like the ones Sliceitup linked to. Whether the abuse is worse than the average county in America I do not know.

I asked a sheriff and several public health directors at a recent symposium. They said things like drug use, abuse, suicide, and other social problems are worse amongst non-Amish neighbours (in Holmes County) than amongst Amish themselves.

Of course, any abuse is bad. But stripping the Amish of religious freedoms and trying to force them to be average Americans will mean more abuse, not less.

[Josh]

Some Amish definitely need exposed like the ones Sliceitup linked to. Whether the abuse is worse than the average county in America I do not know.
What makes it worse is when religion is used to minimize or cover up the abuse.

Some Amish have less abuse than what you will find in the average county in America and some much less. These folks should not be lumped in with the ones above.

You make an excellent point. They aren’t all the same. But the fact that some of them do some epically terrible stuff should be enough to prove they shouldn’t be getting special treatment.

What “special treatment” do you allege they get? The Supreme Court has decided religious freedom is for everyone in America, ranging from atheists to Mormons to Catholics to Muslims to Amish.

[Josh]

Over the last several years, Stephanie and IA have developed professional relationships with Amish and CA abuse advocates like Mary Byler, Hope Anne Dueck, Jasper Hoffman and Misty Griffin. Stephanie is meticulous about research and following best practices. She is absolutely correct that the idealization of the Amish shields and enables sexual abuse in those communities. This is not a hit piece.

Please spend time reading the accounts of Amish and CA abuse survivors and stop trying to deflect.

Calling Amish “incestuous” is a hit piece, as is calling for stripping them of religious freedom.

[Robert]

Over the last several years, Stephanie and IA have developed professional relationships with Amish and CA abuse advocates like Mary Byler, Hope Anne Dueck, Jasper Hoffman and Misty Griffin. Stephanie is meticulous about research and following best practices. She is absolutely correct that the idealization of the Amish shields and enables sexual abuse in those communities.

I greatly respect anyone who does work like this. It is not easy and there are so many emotions and struggles, for the survivor and the family, close and extended. Perpetrators will build allies to target the survivor because they told. Others in the family will be divided. Some will be glad it is out. Others will be mad it is out, even if they do not like the abuse, they still will not want it out. Amish are all about extended family so this creates factions and the victim often gets blamed.

Yes, it is in the Amish community as it is in every church. It is more? I would not know. Is it as much? Yes, because no place or group is immune to it. It is the brokenness of humanity. It is our sinful nature. Amish are not immune to sin. They are imperfect like the rest of humanity.

I agree. Do not idealize the Amish. Do not demonize them either. Both approaches are wrong. Call out sin and brokenness where it is. Support the victims but do not demonize the family that is manipulated or coerced to blame the victim. They are victims in their own right. My wife, although not Amish, is a survivor and was oustersized from her family for telling. It took almost 20 years for others to have the courage to speak up too. Some still have not.

Sexual abuse has nothing to do with Christian religion. Conflating the two is wrong. Exempting a group because of their beliefs is wrong too.

[Sliceitup]

Some Amish definitely need exposed like the ones Sliceitup linked to. Whether the abuse is worse than the average county in America I do not know.
What makes it worse is when religion is used to minimize or cover up the abuse.

Some Amish have less abuse than what you will find in the average county in America and some much less. These folks should not be lumped in with the ones above.

You make an excellent point. They aren’t all the same. But the fact that some of them do some epically terrible stuff should be enough to prove they shouldn’t be getting special treatment.

What “special treatment” do you allege they get? The Supreme Court has decided religious freedom is for everyone in America, ranging from atheists to Mormons to Catholics to Muslims to Amish.

In 2004 an exemption was added to Fair Labor Standards Act that allowed Amish teens ages 14-17 to work in woodworking shops. It was supposed to “help save the Amish way of life.”

In December of 2005 an Amish boy, age 17, was killed in a woodworking shop. He was replacing the blade on a saw when someone turned the machine on.

[MaxPC]

I asked a sheriff and several public health directors at a recent symposium. They said things like drug use, abuse, suicide, and other social problems are worse amongst non-Amish neighbours (in Holmes County) than amongst Amish themselves.

Of course, any abuse is bad. But stripping the Amish of religious freedoms and trying to force them to be average Americans will mean more abuse, not less.

Calling Amish “incestuous” is a hit piece, as is calling for stripping them of religious freedom.

In my perspective, these hit pieces are propaganda to promote the political agenda that seeks to erase religious freedoms from the Constitution. The "alphabet lobby" (LGB XYZ whatever) is very active in trying delete religious freedoms from our Constitution because it is the shield for those against sexual perversions for faith reasons.

Other groups are trying to eliminate the Right to Bear Arms for other reasons. Back to the original topic here, I genuinely feel that we need to counter these hit pieces that serve no one except a political agenda and are an entry point to contest religious freedoms.

[Josh]

In 2004 an exemption was added to Fair Labor Standards Act that allowed Amish teens ages 14-17 to work in woodworking shops. It was supposed to “help save the Amish way of life.”

Actually, that exemption was added for any sincere religious belief that education should be limited to 8th grade and that it is good and wholesome for young people to go work in honest employment. (I happen to share this belief and my own group has similar practices.)

In December of 2005 an Amish boy, age 17, was killed in a woodworking shop. He was replacing the blade on a saw when someone turned the machine on.

1. What does this have to do with sexual abuse?

2. What does this have to do with his age? If he were 18, the same thing would have happened.

[Josh]

In my perspective, these hit pieces are propaganda to promote the political agenda that seeks to erase religious freedoms from the Constitution. The "alphabet lobby" (LGB XYZ whatever) is very active in trying delete religious freedoms from our Constitution because it is the shield for those against sexual perversions for faith reasons.

Other groups are trying to eliminate the Right to Bear Arms for other reasons. Back to the original topic here, I genuinely feel that we need to counter these hit pieces that serve no one except a political agenda and are an entry point to contest religious freedoms.

And notice how certain specific posters here on MennoNet have a political agenda to try to eliminate the Amish: Szdfan and Sliceitup are two examples. They hide behind a cloak of wanting to help abuse survivors, yet they also simultaneously refuse to say abortion is always wrong and they are both apologists for open practice of homosexuality, promoting that gay marriage should be legal. (If I have spoken incorrectly, either of them may correct me.) Their agenda is not about helping abused people but is 100% about promoting anti-Christian destruction of moral values.

[MaxPC]

In my perspective, these hit pieces are propaganda to promote the political agenda that seeks to erase religious freedoms from the Constitution. The "alphabet lobby" (LGB XYZ whatever) is very active in trying delete religious freedoms from our Constitution because it is the shield for those against sexual perversions for faith reasons.

Other groups are trying to eliminate the Right to Bear Arms for other reasons. Back to the original topic here, I genuinely feel that we need to counter these hit pieces that serve no one except a political agenda and are an entry point to contest religious freedoms.

And notice how certain specific posters here on MennoNet have a political agenda to try to eliminate the Amish: Szdfan and Sliceitup are two examples. They hide behind a cloak of wanting to help abuse survivors, yet they also simultaneously refuse to say abortion is always wrong and they are both apologists for open practice of homosexuality, promoting that gay marriage should be legal. (If I have spoken incorrectly, either of them may correct me.) Their agenda is not about helping abused people but is 100% about promoting anti-Christian destruction of moral values.

I have noticed a lack of mention of the sexual and other types of abuse committed by the nonAmish such as leftist politicians, homosexuals, etc. The numbers of these crimes committed by nonAmish is appalling and those numbers far exceed anything found in groups such as the Amish. A similar hit squad went after the Hutterites a few years ago. I heard an old American saying years ago that seems to apply to the nonAmish, anti-religious freedoms group: "Fix your own problems before you kibbutz against other groups."

Right, that may not be an old American saying now that I happen to think about it. It still applies.

[mike]

This ad is in a current issue of Plain Communities Business Exchange, a magazine primarily dedicated to Plain communities. Old Orders in particular. I assume that Amish are among the groups that typically attend the Anabaptist Symposium on Sexual Abuse. For a long time there has been growing awareness of the problems and solutions of sexual abuse among Amish and other groups, and probably in society generally as well. It's a real problem and it needs to be dealt with. There is a strong need for the church to deal with it properly, practice good prevention, promptly involve law enforcement for all crimes, and utilize the best resources to help victims and offenders. And the fact is that many Amish are very ignorant in these areas. Many of them are working on it, and it's getting better, but there is still significant need for change in my opinion.