Colorado Suspect Identifies as Non-Binary

[Ken]

I agree the father seemed to be either under the influence of something during the interview or else messed up from previous substance use. I would say he sounded more in denial about whether his son was actually the shooter rather than relieved to find out that he was. He certainly did seem relieved to "find out his son wasn't gay." It was interesting to hear him describe the folks at the club as "probably good people" or however it was that he phrased it. I thought he was saying "we don't do gay".

in this thread, where much interest is in not jumping to conclusions, you don’t think it’s wise to question the source and motives for the tweet, and, recognize it’s just a tweet? esp now, when twitter, itself, is experiencing tremendous turmoil? many on twitter want to destroy twitter.

it’s easy to be swept up. it’s a challenge to resist it. i haven’t looked at the tweet. it’s clear the intent is to inflict harm.
which is exploiting a tragedy.

Also .. i have a personal dislike of the routine habit of “the press” pursuing family+friends (who must be in some state of shock) -
i think these should be PROTECTED FROM mics and cameras! - not hunted down then splashed all over the public arena.

i noticed this was just done to grieving families in Idaho - horrific disregard. it’s routine. expected. that doesn’t make it right.

This was something i admired with Nickel Mines’ leadership. The men got in front of their community and told the cameras: NO.
They set the best model for tragic circumstances. Protect the hurting, don’t exploit them. i can’t express how wrong i feel it is to shove mics in the faces of people in shock and mourning.

That is the price of living in a free society with a free press. People are also always free to tell the press "no comment" and "get lost". But frankly, if you don't want to talk to the press about your mass murdering son, maybe don't raise a mass murderer. With so many of these killers the signs were there for all to see long before.

What is the alternative to the press reporting on events? Wait for the official report of any news event to come out as determined by the "authorities?" Like they might do in China? Where the press just dutifully transcribes whatever official communications are handed down. Would you trust that? You shouldn't given the recent experience in Uvalde Texas where absolutely everything the Texas authorities initially said about that mass shooting turned out to be a pack of self-serving lies.

[MaxPC]

It was an interview of the father conducted by CBS News of which excerpts were posted to twitter. The whole thing is here:

https://www.cbs8.com/video/news/local/e ... b66f897717

Do you think the backstory of a mass murderer is somehow not newsworthy?

You seem to be focusing on the father who's only crime is he is an idiot. He did not do the shooting. While it may shape a person, the shooter made the choice and he is the one to blame.

Robert, you have it in one, old boy. Free will: we are all given Free Will and all have personal responsibility. So many have been raised in rubbish times by rubbish parents but they decided instead to take responsibility for their own choices and lives and went on to do something good. We do not always know their names because they did not commit a horrific crime.

Using the blame game as an excuse for political points is shabby and shallow thinking at its worse.

[Ken]

It was an interview of the father conducted by CBS News of which excerpts were posted to twitter. The whole thing is here:

https://www.cbs8.com/video/news/local/e ... b66f897717

Do you think the backstory of a mass murderer is somehow not newsworthy?

You seem to be focusing on the father who's only crime is he is an idiot. He did not do the shooting. While it may shape a person, the shooter made the choice and he is the one to blame.

Robert, you have it in one, old boy. Free will: we are all given Free Will and all have personal responsibility. So many have been raised in rubbish times by rubbish parents but they decided instead to take responsibility for their own choices and lives and went on to do something good. We do not always know their names because they did not commit a horrific crime.

Using the blame game as an excuse for political points is shabby and shallow thinking at its worse.

Shorter MaxPC:

1. A horrible violent abusive right-wing Republican father and extended family raises a psychopathic mass murderer. Who, of course, due to our gun laws has unlimited access to weapons of mass murder. Nothing to see here folks, just move along. To mention such influences on a child is just "shabby and shallow" thinking and politization.

2. The idea that children might glimpse a rainbow flag, identify as LGBT, encounter a book that is not hateful towards gays, wish to make their own private medical decisions with the support of their parents, use pronouns that you disapprove of, or be taught about America's history of racism? Those are all horrors that must be abolished by the state. And nonconforming parents, teachers, and students be prosecuted, imprisoned, and/or driven out of society. And, of course, none of that is "politicization" or constitutes shabby and shallow thinking.

Which is it MaxPC? Are childhood influences important? Or are they not? Or is it only the violent hate-filled ones that we should brush aside and ignore?

[RZehr]

That’s not shorter though.

Of course values matter. Even more so than mass murder weapon availability. That’s what conservatives have been saying for years. It’s nice to see liberals suddenly, temporarily, come to the same realization.

It would do society well to have strong loyal traditional families, and proper values and traditions. Children would benefit. Government should assist, not destroy this.

[MaxPC]

That’s not shorter though.

Of course values matter. Even more so than mass murder weapon availability. That’s what conservatives have been saying for years. It’s nice to see liberals suddenly, temporarily, come to the same realization.

It would do society well to have strong loyal traditional families, and proper values and traditions. Children would benefit. Government should assist, not destroy this.

Amen, RZehr. The liberals who push the blame game will not listen however. They prefer the shabby emotional rhetoric to get their agenda in place. Shallow appeals to emotional reactions instead of in-depth logical thinking and actual data. I have had more intellectual, logical responses from the family dogs than from those who push the blame game Kool-Aid. Sad that repeating the Democrat party line is the go-to rather than actual critical thinking and logic - such is the stuff of emotional and lazy agendas.

[Ken]

Of course values matter. Even more so than mass murder weapon availability. That’s what conservatives have been saying for years. It’s nice to see liberals suddenly, temporarily, come to the same realization.

Liberals would argue that they have been teaching core values like tolerance, nonviolence, respect for others, and opposition to hate for many many decades going back to the Civil Rights movement and before.

[ohio jones]

Of course values matter. Even more so than mass murder weapon availability. That’s what conservatives have been saying for years. It’s nice to see liberals suddenly, temporarily, come to the same realization.

Liberals would argue that they have been teaching core values like tolerance, nonviolence, respect for others, and opposition to hate for many many decades going back to the Civil Rights movement and before.

These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

[Ken]

Of course values matter. Even more so than mass murder weapon availability. That’s what conservatives have been saying for years. It’s nice to see liberals suddenly, temporarily, come to the same realization.

Liberals would argue that they have been teaching core values like tolerance, nonviolence, respect for others, and opposition to hate for many many decades going back to the Civil Rights movement and before.

These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

Which civic values do you think are not being taught?

[Robert]

A horrible violent abusive right-wing Republican father and extended family raises a psychopathic mass murderer.

What makes him a right wing Republican? Just because he said that in a drunken stuper? I suspect few right wing Republicans would came the father. Just as few Bernie Bros would claim the guy that shot up the Congressmen and few transgenders would claim the non-binary who shot up the gay bar.

[Ken]

A horrible violent abusive right-wing Republican father and extended family raises a psychopathic mass murderer.

What makes him a right wing Republican? Just because he said that in a drunken stuper? I suspect few right wing Republicans would came the father. Just as few Bernie Bros would claim the guy that shot up the Congressmen and few transgenders would claim the non-binary who shot up the gay bar.

What else can we do but take people at their word when it comes to politics? Judging by the title of this thread, people here are taking the shooters word that he is actually non-binary when actually people looking into that suspect he is just trolling the LGBT community with that claim and trying to avoid hate-crime amplifications of his charges. And they point to the fact that no one who knows him says he has ever made that claim before or used any non-binary pronouns before. In fact his neighbor says he was loudly and violently homophobic.

And, of course the shooter's grandfather is Randy Voepel who is most definitely a self-identified right-wing Republican. He is the Republican State Assemblyman from the 71st District in California and former Republican mayor of Santee California, tea party leader, and had criticized the Republican party as not being conservative enough: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Voepel

Apparently both his parents were such a mess that for a period of time he was under the guardianship of his grandparents. It sounds like a tremendously dysfunctional and horrible family and apparently the signs that this individual was horribly troubled go way back.