As Christians, what kind of government do we fear?

[Josh]

What would this question look like to the historic black church.

Perhaps a Confederate government. And even further back, in Africa, any American government.

Has America ever ruled over any African countries?

[Josh]

Boot,

You seem to want to recruit plain Mennonites for your crusade against what you call right wing extremists. We prefer not to join any political caucus, but we also find the biggest present day threat to us are left wingers, both extremist and mainstream.

Yet we believe we should remain aloof of politics and not try to vote our way into a political regime favourable to ourselves. So why do you keep campaigning against the right wing?

As others pointed out, there is so much left wing violence in the ground in places like Portland it is basically impossible to do things like pass out gospel tracts there or sing on the street. There aren’t places where “right wing extremists” are preventing this.

[barnhart]

What would this question look like to the historic black church.

Perhaps a Confederate government. And even further back, in Africa, any American government.

Last Sunday I lead a song that descends through the black church from far enough back it was written in the five tone scale common in west Africa. It occurs to me most of the time from Africa until the middle of last century, the black church was under some form of oppression and persecution, either propagated or tolerated by government. That is likely one of the longest sustained periods of christian persecution. It seems reasonable they might have learned something about where persecution comes from.

[temporal1]

What would this question look like to the historic black church.

Perhaps a Confederate government. And even further back, in Africa, any American government.

Last Sunday I lead a song that descends through the black church from far enough back it was written in the five tone scale common in west Africa. It occurs to me most of the time from Africa until the middle of last century, the black church was under some form of oppression and persecution, either propagated or tolerated by government. That is likely one of the longest sustained periods of christian persecution. It seems reasonable they might have learned something about where persecution comes from.

still wondering if this is a question of Christianity? - or racism?
except for Muslim attacks on Christianity (regardless of race/ethnicity of congegations) - these are religious wars.

[Robert]

I fear all governments.

Do you mean this in the sense that you do not think governments should exist? Or that you have a fear of what governments are capable of?

I fear what they will do. All I have to do is look to history and see what they will eventually do to their citizens and others. There are no exceptions in history that I am aware of.

[temporal1]

What would this question look like to the historic black church.

Perhaps a Confederate government. And even further back, in Africa, any American government.

Before Europeans/America, Africa was rife with internal slave trade, and slave trade to Arabs.
Eventually, Europeans joined in.

[RZehr]

What would this question look like to the historic black church.

Perhaps a Confederate government. And even further back, in Africa, any American government.

Has America ever ruled over any African countries?

I’m imagining that an African in 1800, bound for North America, might have fear.
I suppose the Africans who stayed in Africa, didn’t worry much about the American government.

[PetrChelcicky]

I don't have the time to comment Bootstrap's ideas in detail. Only some general objections:
1. "Authoritarian" was defined as an attribute of persons - I don't think it is well-defined as an attribute of states (rather a smear word).
2. Yes, West Germany was very "free" for a while. But only as long as they had to define themselves as a better alternative against Nazism and Communism. Those times are long ago.
3. The Protestant Church in East Germany was completely silent, appeasing or supportive at the time when dissent would have been useful (the Fifties). They thereafter concentrated on some rather marginal subjects which did not so much matter for the population and so were not too dangerous for the state (anti-militarism and environmentalism). They never touched the central questions like the "Republikflucht" law (making it a crime to leave East Germany without permission). Basically Protestants represent a faith in which peace and "integrity of creation" are values, but freedom is not a value. Whereas Anabaptism MIGHT make the difference: a Christian faith in which freedom is a value of its own. (Also, as I hope to prove in the book I am writing: peace is impossible without people granting each other freedom).

As for the question: The governments I fear most are the Puritan governments - politicians which suddenly discover that there is a "sin" which they have to exterminate at all costs. (Mostly incited and accompanied by "movements".)

[barnhart]

I fear all governments.

How did you come about this approach, do you find a biblical basis for it.

[Dan Z]

I fear all governments.

How did you come about this approach, do you find a biblical basis for it.

Seems like the sword is a good metaphor for what it means to fear government.

I fear the sword not because of what it is, but because of how it might be used (as history continues to bear witness). Used justly and prudently it can help contain evil in a fallen world (Rom 13), but used unjustly and malevolently it becomes a beastly evil of its own (Rev 13).

The use of the sword, like the exercise of governmental coercive power, is outside of the will of Christ for his followers. However, as an observer, I regard governments like I regard the sword - hopeful that they will use their power justly, fearful that they will abuse it, and always watching with a wary eye.