barnhart wrote: ↑Mon Nov 21, 2022 7:23 am
I really appreciate the spirit of this, serving unbelievers not struggling with them.
I agree: with the divorced and remarried it is usually a “heart condition” that needs the medicine of the Gospel.
Those who are driven by angry political agendas will try to destroy the Believer’s Business. Prudence and wisdom in innocence can find protection without the need to deal with angry confrontation: it is my belief that the early Christians did likewise.
Ernie wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:49 pm
Just curious, have Mennonites refused to bake cakes for divorced and remarried couples at their bakeries?
I know a Mennonite lady who refused to sew a wedding dress for a divorced friend who was planning to remarry.
I also had an interesting discussion a few years ago with another friend who ran a local Mennonite bakery. She said she didn't inquire whom a customer was marrying when cakes were ordered, but wondered if she should. We felt at the time it was somewhat likely she would eventually face the dilemma of a couple coming in where the situation was obviously immoral. After some discussion, she decided the best course of action for her would be to share the gospel clearly and what the Bible says about marriage. Then she planned to ask them, "Do you still want me to bake a cake for you?" If they said yes, then she would give it to them in Jesus' name instead of selling it.
We commented at the time that this would not solve the dilemma for, say, a house-builder, but she would be able to give away a cake instead of just a cup of cold water.
Why give the cake rather than sell it? Is it a way to salve the twinges of conscience incurred by making money off of knowingly assisting in the celebration of an immoral act? Or some other reason?
I'm not saying it's a wrong response. I'm just interested in the rationale.
Ernie wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:49 pm
Just curious, have Mennonites refused to bake cakes for divorced and remarried couples at their bakeries?
I know a Mennonite lady who refused to sew a wedding dress for a divorced friend who was planning to remarry.
I also had an interesting discussion a few years ago with another friend who ran a local Mennonite bakery. She said she didn't inquire whom a customer was marrying when cakes were ordered, but wondered if she should. We felt at the time it was somewhat likely she would eventually face the dilemma of a couple coming in where the situation was obviously immoral. After some discussion, she decided the best course of action for her would be to share the gospel clearly and what the Bible says about marriage. Then she planned to ask them, "Do you still want me to bake a cake for you?" If they said yes, then she would give it to them in Jesus' name instead of selling it.
We commented at the time that this would not solve the dilemma for, say, a house-builder, but she would be able to give away a cake instead of just a cup of cold water.
Why give the cake rather than sell it? Is it a way to salve the twinges of conscience incurred by making money off of knowingly assisting in the celebration of an immoral act? Or some other reason?
I'm not saying it's a wrong response. I'm just interested in the rationale.
I think it makes sense. I've thought of this before too. I think it is refusing to benefit or profit from the thing. And it has a hint of going the extra mile / turning the other cheek / returning good for evil. I don't know if I can explain it very well, but it sort of makes some sense to me.
Decorating it with something objectionable, for myself, would be a different matter.
I can’t explain it either but it just seems like a very Anabaptists response to threats, lawsuits, and violent coercive force.
Of course, the rest of society may observe and decide they don’t like a religious group targeted for discrimination and abuse by homosexuals. That is certainly other people’s prerogative and is indeed the main reason Anabaptists in America have any freedom at all - due to brave Quakers, Episcopalians, and Lutherans who sought justice at the magistrate on behalf of Anabaptists who would not do so for themselves.
RZehr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:17 pm
I also heard about a man who quit his decal business, because a large part of it was on semi trucks, and was vain; client told him that the only reason people do it, is for pride.
Completely asinine. Quit building anything but square houses. And you certainly don't need trim. Anything but cheap plywood cabinets with a clear finish is wrong. Don't bother cut your lawn or pull weeds either. Asinine. Crying shame God didn't just make black and white flowers, and grey skies every day.
But I've had a bishop tell me that my problem is my "lack of appreciation for conservative values because of my occupation." Whatever. We had a very short conversation about it.
Signtist wrote: ↑Mon Nov 21, 2022 3:44 pm
Completely asinine. Quit building anything but square houses. And you certainly don't need trim. Anything but cheap plywood cabinets with a clear finish is wrong. Don't bother cut your lawn or pull weeds either. Asinine. Crying shame God didn't just make black and white flowers, and grey skies every day.
But I've had a bishop tell me that my problem is my "lack of appreciation for conservative values because of my occupation." Whatever. We had a very short conversation about it.
Unless I’m mistaken there are groups that don’t cut their grass and don’t plant flowers. They instead have decorative veggie gardens.
My wife and I almost got rid of our couch and table.
I don’t know that medicine is corrupted enough that there can’t be places to work, but it’s headed quickly that way unless you are willing to compromise on something
My reply was strictly on the decal business as that's my perspective. I totally understand some things are a violation of conscience. I just wonder if the list is far shorter than some of us were taught.
Signtist wrote: ↑Mon Nov 21, 2022 3:46 pm
What if we just quit being offended at everyone life choices? Is that even possible?
Dunno. I thought for a minute there you were offended that someone would actually quit his job fancying up trucks in order to grow vegetables instead...