The End of History

[HondurasKeiser]

I think Richard Hanania is just as deluded as Francis Fukuyama. We don't have the peaceful, transfer of elections. Political violence happens often as in the recent case regarding Mr. Pelosi. We have attempted secession movements. etc.

Blaming what happened to Mr. Pelosi on "Political Violence" is just as uncareful and tangential as blaming it on "illegal immigration". What's more, to suggest that we don't have peaceful elections because, in a country of 330 million people, one, mentally-ill Canadian (redundant I know) attacked a man that is himself not a politician, comes across as a little desperate, empties the term of real meaning and thus makes light of heavy-handed regimes around the world that actually and effectively employ 'political violence' to maintain their hold on power in places like Nicaragua, Venezuela, Iran & North Korea. Real political violence is organized state repression not mentally-ill, drug addicts wielding hammers.

Real political violence is violence that is politically motivated. Let's not excuse January 6th, Charlottesville, Antifa, Proud Boys, or the Ku Klux Klan because most of them aren't working for the government. They are a real threat.

Office of the Director of National Intelligence: Domestic Violent Extremism Poses Heightened Threat in 2021

Fair enough, I was uncareful with my 'real political violence' definition. I would contend though that the mixed and often-contradictory political views held by Mr. DePape which were intermixed with his belief in controlling fairies and in himself as the reincarnation of Jesus ought to lead to a little caution in calling this 'political violence' and is a far cry even from any of the groups you listed. What seems clear, is that this man is extremely ill and were it not for that illness he would not have been in Mr. Pelosi's house this past weekend.

[Ken]

Blaming what happened to Mr. Pelosi on "Political Violence" is just as uncareful and tangential as blaming it on "illegal immigration". What's more, to suggest that we don't have peaceful elections because, in a country of 330 million people, one, mentally-ill Canadian (redundant I know) attacked a man that is himself not a politician, comes across as a little desperate, empties the term of real meaning and thus makes light of heavy-handed regimes around the world that actually and effectively employ 'political violence' to maintain their hold on power in places like Nicaragua, Venezuela, Iran & North Korea. Real political violence is organized state repression not mentally-ill, drug addicts wielding hammers.

Real political violence is violence that is politically motivated. Let's not excuse January 6th, Charlottesville, Antifa, Proud Boys, or the Ku Klux Klan because most of them aren't working for the government. They are a real threat.

Office of the Director of National Intelligence: Domestic Violent Extremism Poses Heightened Threat in 2021

Fair enough, I was uncareful with my 'real political violence' definition. I would contend though that the mixed and often-contradictory political views held by Mr. DePape which were intermixed with his belief in controlling fairies and in himself as the reincarnation of Jesus ought to lead to a little caution in calling this 'political violence' and is a far cry even from any of the groups you listed. What seems clear, is that this man is extremely ill and were it not for that illness he would not have been in Mr. Pelosi's house this past weekend.

He was perhaps mentally ill. But it seems like a lot of right-wing political Q-Anon nonsense was the fuse and propellant that pointed him in the direction of Pelosi's house. Normal sane people don't generally engage in home invasions with a hammer hoping to kneecap an elderly politician to make a political point.

[Ken]

I think Richard Hanania is just as deluded as Francis Fukuyama. We don't have the peaceful, transfer of elections. Political violence happens often as in the recent case regarding Mr. Pelosi. We have attempted secession movements. etc.

Blaming what happened to Mr. Pelosi on "Political Violence" is just as uncareful and tangential as blaming it on "illegal immigration". What's more, to suggest that we don't have peaceful elections because, in a country of 330 million people, one, mentally-ill Canadian (redundant I know) attacked a man that is himself not a politician, comes across as a little desperate, empties the term of real meaning and thus makes light of heavy-handed regimes around the world that actually and effectively employ 'political violence' to maintain their hold on power in places like Nicaragua, Venezuela, Iran & North Korea. Real political violence is organized state repression not mentally-ill, drug addicts wielding hammers.

Real political violence is violence that is politically motivated. Let's not excuse January 6th, Charlottesville, Antifa, Proud Boys, or the Ku Klux Klan because most of them aren't working for the government. They are a real threat.

Office of the Director of National Intelligence: Domestic Violent Extremism Poses Heightened Threat in 2021

And of course the riots in places like Kenosha and Minneapolis were a form of political violence as well.

[HondurasKeiser]

Real political violence is violence that is politically motivated. Let's not excuse January 6th, Charlottesville, Antifa, Proud Boys, or the Ku Klux Klan because most of them aren't working for the government. They are a real threat.

Office of the Director of National Intelligence: Domestic Violent Extremism Poses Heightened Threat in 2021

Fair enough, I was uncareful with my 'real political violence' definition. I would contend though that the mixed and often-contradictory political views held by Mr. DePape which were intermixed with his belief in controlling fairies and in himself as the reincarnation of Jesus ought to lead to a little caution in calling this 'political violence' and is a far cry even from any of the groups you listed. What seems clear, is that this man is extremely ill and were it not for that illness he would not have been in Mr. Pelosi's house this past weekend.

He was perhaps mentally ill. But it seems like a lot of right-wing political Q-Anon nonsense was the fuse and propellant that pointed him in the direction of Pelosi's house. Normal sane people don't generally engage in home invasions with a hammer hoping to kneecap an elderly politician to make a political point.

Exactly, normal sane people don’t do that. He is mentally ill a d had he been normal and sane and yet still subscribed to Q-anon I doubt he’d have been there.

[Ken]

Fair enough, I was uncareful with my 'real political violence' definition. I would contend though that the mixed and often-contradictory political views held by Mr. DePape which were intermixed with his belief in controlling fairies and in himself as the reincarnation of Jesus ought to lead to a little caution in calling this 'political violence' and is a far cry even from any of the groups you listed. What seems clear, is that this man is extremely ill and were it not for that illness he would not have been in Mr. Pelosi's house this past weekend.

He was perhaps mentally ill. But it seems like a lot of right-wing political Q-Anon nonsense was the fuse and propellant that pointed him in the direction of Pelosi's house. Normal sane people don't generally engage in home invasions with a hammer hoping to kneecap an elderly politician to make a political point.

Exactly, normal sane people don’t do that. He is mentally ill a d had he been normal and sane and yet still subscribed to Q-anon I doubt he’d have been there.

The point is that if there weren't thousands of violent political conspiracies about Pelosi floating around the internet, and if there weren't actual Republican members of Congress calling for her assassination then this mentally ill individual would never have showed up at her house. It was the extreme political rhetoric in the country that turned this into violence. Just like it was extreme political rhetoric that probably caused that nutcase a couple months ago to turn up outside Justice Kavanaugh's house with a gun.

[Ernie]

The point is that if there weren't thousands of violent political conspiracies about Pelosi floating around the internet, and if there weren't actual Republican members of Congress calling for her assassination then this mentally ill individual would never have showed up at her house. It was the extreme political rhetoric in the country that turned this into violence. Just like it was extreme political rhetoric that probably caused that nutcase a couple months ago to turn up outside Justice Kavanaugh's house with a gun.

Yes, the mentally unstable don't get these ideas from their own imagination.

[Josh]

The point is that if there weren't thousands of violent political conspiracies about Pelosi floating around the internet, and if there weren't actual Republican members of Congress calling for her assassination then this mentally ill individual would never have showed up at her house. It was the extreme political rhetoric in the country that turned this into violence. Just like it was extreme political rhetoric that probably caused that nutcase a couple months ago to turn up outside Justice Kavanaugh's house with a gun.

Yes, the mentally unstable don't get these ideas from their own imagination.

Mentally unstable people existed before present-day conspiracy theories and websites.

The idea that we need a mass censorship regime and to revoke free speech to prevent an incident like this is utterly absurd.

[HondurasKeiser]

The point is that if there weren't thousands of violent political conspiracies about Pelosi floating around the internet, and if there weren't actual Republican members of Congress calling for her assassination then this mentally ill individual would never have showed up at her house. It was the extreme political rhetoric in the country that turned this into violence. Just like it was extreme political rhetoric that probably caused that nutcase a couple months ago to turn up outside Justice Kavanaugh's house with a gun.

Yes, the mentally unstable don't get these ideas from their own imagination.

Well, he got ideas about being led by a fairy and that he was Jesus from his own imagination. At the end of the day crazy is gonna be crazy and who can predict which tidbits they pick up will set them off in a violent direction?

The rush to call this political violence, thus deigning to know his politics and motivations seems a bit rash and I wonder if we’ve learned anything here over the past few years. Many here knew immediately that Jussie Smollet was attacked by MAGA extremists, that Brett Kavanaugh was a serial gang rapist, that Nicholas Sandman was an example of white privilege smirking at some wise, old native at a pro-life rally…only to discover that our first impressions, colored as they were by media accounts, were dead wrong. My advice on this issue would be to tap the breaks a little and wait for the truth to come out. We know that guy is nuts but his politics are indiscernible and anyone here who pretends to a knowledge of his motivations is either naive or deeply cynical. The fact of the matter is that we simply don’t really know what triggered him to target the Pelosi’s so let’s stop pretending like we do.

Additionally, calling a drug addict with a hammer ‘political violence’ or calling vulgar comments by Marjorie Taylor Greene a “call to assassinate Nancy Pelosi” or pretending to know that one causes the other is of a piece with the very thing they’re criticizing here. It’s an unnecessary escalation of the rhetoric that only serves to vilify others and raise the pitch of debate to a fever. We might all do well to turn down the temperature but turning down the rhetoric. Not everything needs to be a 4-alarm fire and if we weren’t so quick to assign the worst possible motives to people we don’t like, perhaps, slowly, the political climate might begin to improve.

[Ken]

or calling vulgar comments by Marjorie Taylor Greene a “call to assassinate Nancy Pelosi” or pretending to know that one causes the other is of a piece with the very thing they’re criticizing here. It’s an unnecessary escalation of the rhetoric...

Her words....



and...

[HondurasKeiser]

or calling vulgar comments by Marjorie Taylor Greene a “call to assassinate Nancy Pelosi” or pretending to know that one causes the other is of a piece with the very thing they’re criticizing here. It’s an unnecessary escalation of the rhetoric...

Her words....



and...

I suppose ‘call to assassination’ is in the eyes of the beholder. What she said and liked is ugly and disgusting and ought to have her censured in the House…were it an actual call to assassination though do you not think that she’d be in criminal proceedings right now and wouldn’t Speaker Pelosi refuse to seat her in the House?