Outcomes of Overturning Roe Vs. Wade

[Josh]

Yes, we have a for-profit health care insurance system and health care industry unlike pretty much any other developed nation. And our health care costs are about double that of any other nation but with poorer results.

One might actually think that free market capitalism isn't always the answer to every single social problem

Most hospitals are nonprofits.

You mean like, for example, Ascension Health (the largest Catholic hospital chain in the US) which had a net profits of $5.7 BILLION in 2021 and who paid their CEO Anthony Tersigni a cool $14 million?

And who has achieved those numbers in a large part by extorting the poor? https://www.medicaleconomics.com/view/h ... ip-america or https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/24/heal ... rhood.html or https://khn.org/news/article/north-caro ... re-report/

That is an awful lot of "non-profit" profit going on there.

Feel free to go to court and challenge their non profit status or something.

[Ken]

Most hospitals are nonprofits.

You mean like, for example, Ascension Health (the largest Catholic hospital chain in the US) which had a net profits of $5.7 BILLION in 2021 and who paid their CEO Anthony Tersigni a cool $14 million?

And who has achieved those numbers in a large part by extorting the poor? https://www.medicaleconomics.com/view/h ... ip-america or https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/24/heal ... rhood.html or https://khn.org/news/article/north-caro ... re-report/

That is an awful lot of "non-profit" profit going on there.

Feel free to go to court and challenge their non profit status or something.

Non-profit is merely a tax status. It doesn't mean they aren't earning obscene profits and using egregious greed and profit-motived methods to achieve them.

[Josh]

Who exactly earns profits in a nonprofit?

[Ken]

Who exactly earns profits in a nonprofit?

The institution and the people who work for it.

[Josh]

Who exactly earns profits in a nonprofit?

The institution and the people who work for it.

“The institution”. Who does this money go to? The stockholders?

Nonprofits are nonprofits. Are you saying employees of nonprofits should work for free?

[Ken]

Who exactly earns profits in a nonprofit?

The institution and the people who work for it.

“The institution”. Who does this money go to? The stockholders?

Nonprofits are nonprofits. Are you saying employees of nonprofits should work for free?

You are being deliberately dense. Take the example I cited above of a non-profit hospital chain, Ascension Health. They made $5.8 billion in profit in 2021. Where do you think the money goes? (1) They use it to acquire more hospitals, do gold-plated expansions, and further cement their monopoly power over many regions of the US, and (2) for excessive salaries. How many doctors and executives working for Ascension Health do you think make over $1 million dollars per year? Or over $500,000 per year? I would venture to guess the number is well into the thousands. You are paying for all those salaries every time you use any medical services at any clinic or hospital owned by Ascension Health. And you are paying for all those gold-plated new hospitals and hospital wings.

Or if you want another example in another field, look at Harvard or Stanford. What was Harvard's profits on its endowment in 2021? It was over $10 Billion. That is a lot of "non-profit" profit for which they owed zero taxes while being engaged largely in a project of hording wealth and privilege for the top 1% in this country. How many assistant deans or vice presidents at Harvard make over $500,000 per year on all those tax-free profits? Or over $1 million per year? Meanwhile the working class small business owner who owns a plumbing business in Cambridge pays more taxes than all of Harvard University.

[RZehr]

Seems like non-profits need some tax reform. Some formula, that says they can’t accumulate more than 1x the amount they spend directly on their mission, excluding administrative costs and overhead. Beyond that, their income is subject to tax. And also at a certain point, they have to pay some property tax.

It’s crazy. These universities, and hospitals are competing with for profits. The Mormon church is one of the largest land owners in the US, which makes it more difficult for small farmers to buy land. Tax ‘em. Let their members farm, and give tithes to the church to support their mission.

[Ken]

Seems like non-profits need some tax reform. Some formula, that says they can’t accumulate more than 1x the amount they spend directly on their mission, excluding administrative costs and overhead. Beyond that, their income is subject to tax. And also at a certain point, they have to pay some property tax.

It’s crazy. These universities, and hospitals are competing with for profits. The Mormon church is one of the largest land owners in the US, which makes it more difficult for small farmers to buy land. Tax ‘em. Let their members farm, and give tithes to the church to support their mission.

Exactly. This is probably a topic deserving of another thread. And it isn't just overtly religious groups like the Mormons. I think the Gates Foundation also owns a lot of land. And frankly so do universities like Harvard which are increasingly using their enormous endowments to invest in "non-traditional" investments like agricultural and forest lands. Not only are they able to out-compete actual farmers in the purchase of such lands, but when non-profits buy up land they can take it off the tax rolls. The remaining farmers and other landowners in that area end up having to pay a higher percentage of the cost of government from schools and fire protection to utility services and such because the Mormon Church or Harvard aren't kicking in their share.

[Josh]

I'll repeat myself. Nonprofits don't earn profits.

Nonprofits are given donations, and that's money other people have already earned and paid taxes on.

If a nonprofit owns another for-profit business, taxes are paid on any such profits before the nonprofit receives them.

[temporal1]

Seems like non-profits need some tax reform. Some formula, that says they can’t accumulate more than 1x the amount they spend directly on their mission, excluding administrative costs and overhead. Beyond that, their income is subject to tax. And also at a certain point, they have to pay some property tax.

It’s crazy. These universities, and hospitals are competing with for profits. The Mormon church is one of the largest land owners in the US, which makes it more difficult for small farmers to buy land. Tax ‘em. Let their members farm, and give tithes to the church to support their mission.

Before tackling this, first address “guaranteed” college student loans. (The guarantee is that banks can’t lose.) Who cares about students/taxpayers? Or quality education? Old saying, “Quality, not quantity?”

Allow student loans to be dismissed in bankruptcy.
That one relatively small common sense change would sober things up in a hurry. No need for “free” higher ed. Responsible ed.

Accomplish that, then cautiously address churches (and, separately, other non profits). Frankly, i don’t have any faith there’s about to be a turnaround of the guaranteed student loan disaster - profiteers aren’t about to allow it!
START WITH SOMETHING “SMALL.”

i’d appreciate seeing a whole lot more foresight employed before laws are changed or made.
As it is, one thoughtless law after another seems to do little more than precipitate the need for more+more laws (to attempt clean-up of poorly crafted law, to begin). The U.S. is drowning in human law. Law schools LOVE it! Employment security.

i’m not bothered by churches being tax exempt.
the myriad of other non profits, how easy it seems to be to get this status, should be reviewed.

all around, more forethought is needed. sheer numbers of new laws passed every year is a clue something’s wrong.