Nord Stream

[Ken]

Apparently the Swedes (who conducted the on-site underwater investigation) are convinced that Russia did it

Did you actually read the article?

You're quoting Peter Zeihan's opinion (which he apparently calls a translation now), who apparently can read minds, since the Swedes have said nothing of the sort.

Yes I read it. The Swedes are being tight-lipped. But various international analysts point to the fact that the Swedes are cooperating with Denmark and Germany in the investigation and refusing to include or share any results with Russia as an indication that they believe the Russians are culpable. And that they may not want the Russians to know HOW they know in the event that the Russians might want to try the same thing somewhere else.

[nett]

Yes I read it. The Swedes are being tight-lipped. But various international analysts point to the fact that the Swedes are cooperating with Denmark and Germany in the investigation and refusing to include or share any results with Russia as an indication that they believe the Russians are culpable. And that they may not want the Russians to know HOW they know in the event that the Russians might want to try the same thing somewhere else.

That is is a major helping of hopium, and makes absolutely not sense whatsoever.

[Ken]

Yes I read it. The Swedes are being tight-lipped. But various international analysts point to the fact that the Swedes are cooperating with Denmark and Germany in the investigation and refusing to include or share any results with Russia as an indication that they believe the Russians are culpable. And that they may not want the Russians to know HOW they know in the event that the Russians might want to try the same thing somewhere else.

That is is a major helping of hopium, and makes absolutely not sense whatsoever.

It actually makes perfect sense. You would not want the perpetrators of a crime participating in the investigation of said crime. Whether we are talking about a common criminal or state actor.

Whether you believe it or not is a different issue.

[nett]

Yes I read it. The Swedes are being tight-lipped. But various international analysts point to the fact that the Swedes are cooperating with Denmark and Germany in the investigation and refusing to include or share any results with Russia as an indication that they believe the Russians are culpable. And that they may not want the Russians to know HOW they know in the event that the Russians might want to try the same thing somewhere else.

That is is a major helping of hopium, and makes absolutely not sense whatsoever.

It actually makes perfect sense. You would not want the perpetrators of a crime participating in the investigation of said crime. Whether we are talking about a common criminal or state actor.

Whether you believe it or not is a different issue.

So Sweden opted out of a joint investigation with Denmark and Germany....because they actually want to cooperate with them.

Might want to lay off whatever they're smoking out there in Washington...

[Ken]

That is is a major helping of hopium, and makes absolutely not sense whatsoever.

It actually makes perfect sense. You would not want the perpetrators of a crime participating in the investigation of said crime. Whether we are talking about a common criminal or state actor.

Whether you believe it or not is a different issue.

So Sweden opted out of a joint investigation with Denmark and Germany....because they actually want to cooperate with them.

Might want to lay off whatever they're smoking out there in Washington...

Read the article. They explained why Sweden is doing what it is doing. An official international investigation would require data sharing that Sweden doesn’t want to do for national security reasons. But they are happy to collaborate with Denmark and Germany on a less than formal basis. The sabotage is within the Swedish EEZ so they have jurisdiction. If it had happened within the US EEZ I’m sure the US would have done the same thing. Conducted their own investigation but then shared the results with allies.

[temporal1]

Another from my Top Ten favs:

Nicholas spock Jr.
@Coalcracker29
Oct 14
Replying to
@PeterZeihan

I remember since the 1980s Sweden alternately perplexed and/or furious over unexplained activity on the seabed around their waters.
I'm sure since then the bottom is wired better than a Best Buy store and they know when anything bigger than a crab moves.

[nett]

Read the article. They explained why Sweden is doing what it is doing. An official international investigation would require data sharing that Sweden doesn’t want to do for national security reasons. But they are happy to collaborate with Denmark and Germany on a less than formal basis. The sabotage is within the Swedish EEZ so they have jurisdiction. If it had happened within the US EEZ I’m sure the US would have done the same thing. Conducted their own investigation but then shared the results with allies.

The article does not mention Sweden having to share data with Russia. People have decided that must be why Sweden is doing this, but nothing about the JIT process means the Sweden would have to share anything publicly, they would have to share it with Germany and Denmark, but what does that have to do with Russia?

[Ken]

Read the article. They explained why Sweden is doing what it is doing. An official international investigation would require data sharing that Sweden doesn’t want to do for national security reasons. But they are happy to collaborate with Denmark and Germany on a less than formal basis. The sabotage is within the Swedish EEZ so they have jurisdiction. If it had happened within the US EEZ I’m sure the US would have done the same thing. Conducted their own investigation but then shared the results with allies.

The article does not mention Sweden having to share data with Russia. People have decided that must be why Sweden is doing this, but nothing about the JIT process means the Sweden would have to share anything publicly, they would have to share it with Germany and Denmark, but what does that have to do with Russia?

Two separate issues.

There are apparently some aspects of this investigation involving national security issues (technologies, mapping, technological know-how, personnel involved, security clearances, etc.) that Sweden considers to be national security secrets and doesn't want to share with anyone which would apparently happen or be required if they did a formal joint investigation. So the are willing to informally collaborate/share data with Germany and Denmark but don't want to do a formal joint investigation.

There is a second issue of who they share the results with. Apparently they are happy to do that with Germany and Denmark and do informal collaboration, but they don't want Russia going anywhere near there or have access with any of their more secret results. I noticed that they have already released some public information and vidoes.

I expect it is exactly the same with the US. There are some top secret issues and technologies that the Pentagon probably doesn't want to share with anyone including allies that they might otherwise collaborate with. And then there are countries like Russia or Iran or North Korea that they won't share with or cooperate with at all on any level.

[RZehr]

Problem here for me, is that I don’t see this at all indicative that the evidence must point to Russia. Under what scenario would Sweden share anything with Russia anyway? If the evidence pointed away from Russia, Sweden wouldn’t share that to Russia, nor make public. If the evidence pointed towards Russia, they wouldn’t share it with Russia either.
So the mere fact that Russia cannot participate or review doesn’t mean anything to me.

If Russia did plot to blow it up, why wouldn’t have they done so in a location along the route that they could have controlled the investigative narrative? Sheer stupidity? Maybe so.

Seems like if Russia did it, they should have done it near Russia, and spun the narrative. That the west sneaked in and did it. Then produced evidence to prove that.

Ukraine doesn’t bomb their own infrastructure and blame Russia. No. They bomb the Kerch bridge. Or should we believe that Russia bombed their own Crimean bridge too?

[nett]

Problem here for me, is that I don’t see this at all indicative that the evidence must point to Russia. Under what scenario would Sweden share anything with Russia anyway? If the evidence pointed away from Russia, Sweden wouldn’t share that to Russia, nor make public. If the evidence pointed towards Russia, they wouldn’t share it with Russia either.
So the mere fact that Russia cannot participate or review doesn’t mean anything to me.

If Russia did plot to blow it up, why wouldn’t have they done so in a location along the route that they could have controlled the investigative narrative? Sheer stupidity? Maybe so.

The obvious answer is that Russia did not blow up the pipeline, but there is mass hysteria currently in progress where any evil must have been done by Russia.