Can Christians support a "just war" in a conflict?

[nett]

This thread isn't about ending the war. It is about whether Christians can support it. Two completely separate subjects.

Supporting it and condemning it are two different things. Find me a bible verse telling Christians to universally condemn all war, and the rulers / states who wage them.

Do you believe that war is ever wrong, Nett? Do you believe that killing large numbers of civilians who are no danger to you is immoral? Why or why not?

Is a war ever wrong, I'm sure it is, but I'm in no position to adjudicate it, and it's definitely not clear in the case of Russia and The Ukraine. Russia could have been much more violent if the goal was merely violence and death for Ukrainians. I suspect Russia could have destroyed most of the large Ukrainian cities by air with much less loss to their own military.

I don't think I'm saying the things you put in my mouth and mock. I think I am saying that Putin is doing awful things in Ukraine. Do you disagree? If so, on what grounds? Can Christians excuse an "unjust war" in a conflict?

God appears to have justified doing "awful things" in the OT repeatedly, and there is no way to explain that in the liberal paradigm, which I believe is why most liberalism tends to lead to atheism, or gnosticism of some kind.

The Ukraine appears to be guilty of a lot of the same things that brought judgement in the OT, and I don't believe the consequences for evil have changed in the NT. Aligning with the West is not a good thing.

Thou art my battle axe and weapons of war: for with thee will I break in pieces the nations, and with thee will I destroy kingdoms; - Jeremiah 51:20

Since you're always trying to extract confessions out of people, how about I go.

Do you renounce the west, and NATO as an evil empire that committed horrific crimes against humanity?

[nett]

P.S. I'll address the Nazi theme elsewhere ... maybe it needs its own thread.

Let me guess, they weren't "real" nazis, and were actually nice people who anyone would want to have over for dinner with the fam.

Let me guess, you love Nazis and think all Christians should be Nazis.

That's not what you think? I didn't think so. Well, guess what, your guess was wrong too, so could you please stop making things up and putting them into my mouth? Here's the thread if you want to see what I actually said:

http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=5087

For the most part, though, I can't tell if you are even reading what I write. I'll respond to specific things I said if you want to ask about them, but I don't think your stereotypes or guesses are worth responding to.

You're right, i mis-characterized what you said. What you said was far more absurd. You quoted the ADL for crying out loud.

[nett]

Do you believe that nations have an obligation to avoid starting wars if they are not actually under threat?

So far, you haven't given a black and white answer to that.

"actually under threat" is a subjective and nebulous phrase, so I can't answer the question.

Based on my reading of the Bible, a nation simply believing another nation is committing evil, even if it's not directly against the first nation, is enough justification to go to war.

You're awfully light on Biblical support for anything you've said so far. I'm not saying the Bible promotes war, but I am saying that it does not condemn it like you have. The burden of proof is with you to show that your stance lines up with the Bible, and so far, you've provided exactly nothing.

Since the subject of this topic regard Christians, and their behavior, I would like to have a discussion about what the Bible actually says about this.

Since you're big on confessions and virtue signaling, here's a quick disclaimer.

As a non-resistant Christian, I believe all forms of violence are antithetical to the Kindgom of Christ, and therefore anyone who calls themselves a Christian must not commit violence, either directly or indirectly.

That being said, natural law involves sinful and fallen men, it must involve violence, and since nations and states are outside of Christ's Kingdom, and subject to natural law, they must use to violence to fulfil their natural role.

This is why it is imperative that Christians refrain from involvement with the state.

[Ken]

Do you believe that nations have an obligation to avoid starting wars if they are not actually under threat?

So far, you haven't given a black and white answer to that.

"actually under threat" is a subjective and nebulous phrase, so I can't answer the question.

Based on my reading of the Bible, a nation simply believing another nation is committing evil, even if it's not directly against the first nation, is enough justification to go to war.

You're awfully light on Biblical support for anything you've said so far. I'm not saying the Bible promotes war, but I am saying that it does not condemn it like you have. The burden of proof is with you to show that your stance lines up with the Bible, and so far, you've provided exactly nothing.

Since the subject of this topic regard Christians, and their behavior, I would like to have a discussion about what the Bible actually says about this.

Since you're big on confessions and virtue signaling, here's a quick disclaimer.

As a non-resistant Christian, I believe all forms of violence are antithetical to the Kindgom of Christ, and therefore anyone who calls themselves a Christian must not commit violence, either directly or indirectly.

That being said, natural law involves sinful and fallen men, it must involve violence, and since nations and states are outside of Christ's Kingdom, and subject to natural law, they must use to violence to fulfil their natural role.

This is why it is imperative that Christians refrain from involvement with the state.

So, do you believe that Christian ethics and teachings are universal? Or are they just a set of rules and standards that apply only to Christians and have no relevance to anyone else?

[nett]

So, do you believe that Christian ethics and teachings are universal? Or are they just a set of rules and standards that apply only to Christians and have no relevance to anyone else?

Outside of following Jesus, and believing in his Kingdom, most of his teachings don't make a lot of sense.

[Ken]

So, do you believe that Christian ethics and teachings are universal? Or are they just a set of rules and standards that apply only to Christians and have no relevance to anyone else?

Outside of following Jesus, and believing in his Kingdom, most of his teachings don't make a lot of sense.

So then you are opposed to putting any Christian ethics into law then? They should just be for Christians to follow and no one else?

Abortion, gay marriage, LGBT rights, theft, murder, etc?

[nett]

So, do you believe that Christian ethics and teachings are universal? Or are they just a set of rules and standards that apply only to Christians and have no relevance to anyone else?

Outside of following Jesus, and believing in his Kingdom, most of his teachings don't make a lot of sense.

So then you are opposed to putting any Christian ethics into law then? They should just be for Christians to follow and no one else?

Abortion, gay marriage, LGBT rights, theft, murder, etc?

Those aren't teachings specific to Jesus, those are reflections on natural law, which you can find codified in the OT. You can also just look around at the creation and figure out that all of those things are deeply problematic.

[JimFoxvog]

in the past, diplomacy was important (on the international level).
i’m sad that it seems the MIC lobbies have eliminated the importance of diplomacy.

I looked up the phrase but I still don't understand what you are saying.
https://www.seaofthieves.com/ko/communi ... ou-read-it

[Neto]

To the point of the opening question:
No. Some do, but they shouldn't. It is starting with the voices and actions of the world to determine one's own path, rather than the voice and actions of Jesus, our Savior and King. (Incidentally, that was my own path, my starting point, in moving from a pro-war patriot to a non-resistant Believer. It took ME about 5 years, so happy journey.)

[temporal1]

in the past, diplomacy was important (on the international level).
i’m sad that it seems the MIC lobbies have eliminated the importance of diplomacy.

I looked up the phrase but I still don't understand what you are saying.
https://www.seaofthieves.com/ko/communi ... ou-read-it

i was thinking of Military Industrial Complex.
Turns out, there are numerous references to those letters; in government, alone, 45 (in all=568)! i had no idea.
http://acronymsandslang.com/meaning-of/ ... y/MIC.html