Can Christians support a "just war" in a conflict?

[Bootstrap]

Have you ever made a statement like this?

The Kingdom of God grieves and mourns when a defending military fires missiles, shells, and bombs at an invading enemy.

Because that's not the stance much of evangelical Christianity is taking. Much of evangelical Christianity is taking a position that God is on the side of the Ukrainians, and even go so far as to say God is helping give them military victories. That's the kind of thing I want to stay away from.

I haven't said either of those things. Not the quote you want me to sign onto, not the view you say much of evangelical Christianity is taking.

I would certainly say that the Kingdom of God grieves and mourns all war and all victims of war.

[Josh]

Have you ever made a statement like this?

The Kingdom of God grieves and mourns when a defending military fires missiles, shells, and bombs at an invading enemy.

Because that's not the stance much of evangelical Christianity is taking. Much of evangelical Christianity is taking a position that God is on the side of the Ukrainians, and even go so far as to say God is helping give them military victories. That's the kind of thing I want to stay away from.

I haven't said either of those things. Not the quote you want me to sign onto, not the view you say much of evangelical Christianity is taking.

I would certainly say that the Kingdom of God grieves and mourns all war and all victims of war.

That's a lot closer to the proper position. But there is still an equivocating here, trying to find the Western side as somehow morally superior to the non-Western side. I simply do not see the Western side as more just, and I cannot unless I decide to subscribe to just war doctrine.

[Bootstrap]

That's a lot closer to the proper position. But there is still an equivocating here, trying to find the Western side as somehow morally superior to the non-Western side. I simply do not see the Western side as more just, and I cannot unless I decide to subscribe to just war doctrine.

Military invasions. Bad. That's what I am saying. Without equivocating. I'm not saying anything at all about the West being morally superior to Russia.

Can you say that about Putin's military invasion? Without equivocating?

[temporal1]

For better/worse, the godless NYT is a greater influence than Evangelical churches, which (i find) easy to ignore.

Not all in Russia/Ukraine buy into Just War:

This is dated December 2022 - i expect it should be 2021.
The volatile situation was known, diplomats and church leaders attempted prevention.

The Caesars ramped up for war.

“Churches from both Russia and Ukraine urge for peace”
https://cne.news/artikel/674-churches-f ... -for-peace

.. No such thing as a just war
Moreover, Vladimir Legoyda, Head of the Synodal Department for Church Relations with Society and Mass Media, says that the Church can only be a peacemaker. “The Church can only call for a peaceful resolution of existing conflicts”, he stressed according to Pravmir.com.

The Orthodox Church also developed a Just War Theory.
The traditional theory points out that Christ never led an army and called His followers to love their enemies.
He battled, but not against people, but against Satan, Fr. Bill Olnhausen writes in Pravmir.com.

Olnhausen furthermore argues that “the Orthodox Fathers held that war is always an evil, that there is no such thing as a just war, a holy war (…). Its view of war, unlike that of the West, was that it is a necessary evil. The peace ideal continued to remain normative.”

Great gesture
Supreme Archbishop Sviatoslav Shevchuk, the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church (UGCC) leader, has invited Pope Francis to visit the country. On Tuesday, he said it would be a grand gesture that would help find peace at a time of tension, Reuters reports. According to Shevchuk, the Ukrainian people say that the war will end if the Pope comes to Ukraine. “They see the gesture of a papal visit as a message of peace.” ..

Following the invasion, Pope Francis has spoken out about it.

[temporal1]

ken_sylvania speaks:

.. To me, what seems morally complicated is trying to develop a moral paradigm that knows what "Russian Caesar" ought to do or not do, while remaining clue-less about what "Ukrainian Caesar" and "American Caesar" ought to do.

“Ought to do” and, “have done.” From the Caesar pov, no innocents in this.

(Innocents are victims, the ripple effect extends outward.) That’s what war does.

ken_s:
.. I happen to also believe that mortar attacks on border patrol stations full of refugees, missile attacks on fuel refineries, bombings of bridges, and killing one's enemies are bad things.

And that providing the weapons for other people to do things like this cannot be morally differentiated
from the actual doing of such things.

i’ve read some reports from prior-to Feb 24, the U.S./West (and Russia) could not have been better informed, prepared, invested. While (we on this forum) were preoccupied (specifically with Canada’s Truck Convoy) heads of state, Russia, Ukraine, NATO, the West, were formally building up to this strike.

There was no surprise.
Putin had been candid about what he wanted, building a war machine was the single response.

Once billions-trillions are summoned for war, can it be possible to find resolution? i would say, very low odds.
Thus, altho, months ago, reports seem to reflect Putin+Z were in agreement, or close, THIS WAS NOT ALLOWED.

Money+power are seductive. This, in scriptures and in all of history.

[temporal1]

Can you say that about Putin's military invasion? Without equivocating?

That’s not what Jesus did.
He was pesky about “He without sin,” He was consistent in self-accountability, about looking at things in broader perspective, with the goal of reaching higher.

[Josh]

That's a lot closer to the proper position. But there is still an equivocating here, trying to find the Western side as somehow morally superior to the non-Western side. I simply do not see the Western side as more just, and I cannot unless I decide to subscribe to just war doctrine.

Military invasions. Bad. That's what I am saying. Without equivocating. I'm not saying anything at all about the West being morally superior to Russia.

Can you say that about Putin's military invasion? Without equivocating?

I don’t agree with calling it “Putin’s invasion”, but the Russian Federation’s adventurism in Kiev was bad, and then took a turn from bad to worse from there.

[Ernie]

Can non-resistant Christians support the use and distribution of bullet protection and "air-defense systems"? If so, are any devices exempt from this?

[Bootstrap]

Can non-resistant Christians support the use and distribution of bullet protection and "air-defense systems"? If so, are any devices exempt from this?

Here's my view.

In general, non-resistant Christians should not pretend we are the ones who know what Caesar should do with the sword. Romans 13 says God has given Caesar the sword, it does not put us in charge of telling him how to use it.

While "just war theory" doesn't tell us that a war is right, it does give very useful guidelines for saying a war is plainly wrong. I am happy to speak out against wars that are plainly wrong, speaking out against military imperialism when one country invades another, speaking out against torture and targeting civilians. I am generally silent about countries that seem to be defending themselves against attack. I think I'm in over my head if I try to talk about what military alliances should or should not do, that's really up to Caesar, not up to me. I'm also in over my head if I try to know whether air defense systems would be appropriate. When God gave Caesar the sword, he didn't ask me what kind of sword Caesar should use. So there are a WHOLE lot of questions where I choose to be silent.

Every war has victims. I am ready to help refugees, give money to those who know how to help, pray for the victims. Really, I think that's where the Kingdom of God focus should be. The Kingdom of God's answers are often answers to very different questions.

[JimFoxvog]

Can non-resistant Christians support the use and distribution of bullet protection and "air-defense systems"? If so, are any devices exempt from this?

Bullet protection sounds acceptable, but I'd need to know the details. Air defense means shooting down planes, greatly endangering those on the planes, so is unacceptable.