Domestic violence within our plain culture?

[steve-in-kville]

Yes, I have heard of it happening in plain communities. But if by domestic violence you only mean wife beating, then I think your definition is too narrow. Read the definition on the link below and then re-ask your question. There should be hundreds of responses.

https://www.justice.gov/ovw/domestic-violence

My original intent was the afore mentioned "wife beating" but would be open to discuss the other types referenced in the link provided.

[Josh]

Yes, I have heard of it happening in plain communities. But if by domestic violence you only mean wife beating, then I think your definition is too narrow. Read the definition on the link below and then re-ask your question. There should be hundreds of responses.

https://www.justice.gov/ovw/domestic-violence

My original intent was the afore mentioned "wife beating" but would be open to discuss the other types referenced in the link provided.

The other types are awfully vague and broad (and most of them aren't illegal either). That website just seems to be a repackaging of the infamous Duluth Wheels which were created by Ellen Pence.

Amongst Ellen Pence's odder beliefs, she seemed to think domestic violence wasn't really a "choice" or a "bad behaviour" but more something environmental, like a dog that snaps because it's hungry, and she thought this behaviour could be "rehabilitated". I generally do not find what radical feminists like her have to say about things remotely helpful.

[jahertz]

Yes, I have heard of it happening in plain communities. But if by domestic violence you only mean wife beating, then I think your definition is too narrow. Read the definition on the link below and then re-ask your question. There should be hundreds of responses.

https://www.justice.gov/ovw/domestic-violence

My original intent was the afore mentioned "wife beating" but would be open to discuss the other types referenced in the link provided.

As an Anabaptist who has spent a few years immersed in seeking ways to address this issue in our culture, I can confirm that it is not only very much a problem, but its commonness would shock most Anabaptists who have not been in a position to hear the stories behind the scenes. There are congregations that look fine on the outside, where horrifying forms of domestic abuse are generational in multiple families. In some of these cases, church leaders have simply never become aware of what is happening behind closed doors, and in others a victim has come forward only to watch an abuser weaponize church leadership against her (yes, the victim is typically the wife) by the use of gaslighting and twisted theology, leaving the victim even more isolated and stuck than before.

The Justice Department definition shared above is helpful in understanding domestic abuse not just for its thoroughness, but for the way it focuses on a *pattern* of control and domination, rather than specific behaviors, such as hitting or yelling. I have little use for the perspectives of worldly radical feminists, but the patterns of control and domination described in that article are confirmed by the work of experienced Biblical counselors and therapists in the field of domestic abuse.

The habit of limiting our thinking about abuse to physical hitting results in a huge amount of confusion within Anabaptist circles, because while some Plain abusers do physically attack their wives and/or children, Anabaptist cultural conditioning against physical violence means that a wicked wicked hearts are more likely to find more covert outlets for their compulsion to feed their own selfish desires at others' expense.

I have not spent much time on this forum during the past few years, but will continue following and engaging this topic, as I think it's flown under the radar in our circles for far too long and needs much more discussion and awareness.

Thank you, Steve-in-Kville, for raising the question. Is there a story behind your initial impulse to raise this topic here?

[jahertz]

I'll add in the interest of full disclosure that I will have more time than usual to spend behind the keyboard during the next few days or weeks while recovering from a recent traumatic brain injury, but by the same token, I am cognitively fragile in ways I can't always predict, whether due to the injury itself or to the medication I am taking for recovery. I have experienced one incident already in which I had an embarrassing and uncharacteristic meltdown in an online discussion that I had to apologize for later. Having had very stable moods all my life, this is a new type of challenge for me, and while I will do my best to catch such mood swings building and take a time out before they inconvenience others, I cannot promise I will always succeed.

This is not a request to be treated with kid gloves or an excuse for toxic behavior, just a plea for whatever forbearance you feel this information warrants going forward should I fail temporarily to meet the standards of civil discourse I seek to hold myself to as a gentleman and a believer. Thank you for your indulgence!

[Neto]

I'll add in the interest of full disclosure that I will have more time than usual to spend behind the keyboard during the next few days or weeks while recovering from a recent traumatic brain injury, but by the same token, I am cognitively fragile in ways I can't always predict, whether due to the injury itself or to the medication I am taking for recovery. I have experienced one incident already in which I had an embarrassing and uncharacteristic meltdown in an online discussion that I had to apologize for later. Having had very stable moods all my life, this is a new type of challenge for me, and while I will do my best to catch such mood swings building and take a time out before they inconvenience others, I cannot promise I will always succeed.

This is not a request to be treated with kid gloves or an excuse for toxic behavior, just a plea for whatever forbearance you feel this information warrants going forward should I fail temporarily to meet the standards of civil discourse I seek to hold myself to as a gentleman and a believer. Thank you for your indulgence!

I am enheartened by your openness. I pray God's blessing for you during this difficult time. (Personally, I have found that if I have a "catch" in my spirit after having written something - a hesitation to hit the Submit button, if i put it into a document file and re-read it later, I very often send the whole thing in the trash bin. And there are times when I had the feeling that I should wait, and just went ahead & hit the button to submit, then need to apologize later. Same thing with email messages, and although I don't often use text messaging, that too.)

[jahertz]

Then there's verbal abuse. It seems to me that "non-resistant" people are too often really "good at" verbal abuse. You never get punched in the gut (or face), just in the spirit. It must not be as satisfying for the abuser, however, as it seems to just keep on bubbling over.
Don't believe that nonsense from the children's rhyme "Stick and stones may hurt my bones, but words will never hurt me". (How about "Sticks and stone hurt my bones, but words do hurt inside me.")

Again, this is a valid point, but from the perspective of abuse there is a profound difference between a single incident of verbal cruelty and a pattern of degrading, dehumanizing, or threatening words. There are marriages in which both partners tend to lash out verbally during conflicts, but have developed patterns of de-escalation that allow them to climb back down and make up without either one being cowed or humiliated or terrorized into submission to the other. There are other cases where one partner may say cutting words or even physically lash out in the heat of the moment, only to later acknowledge being in the wrong, and not repeat or threaten such behavior again. These are unhealthy situations, but they do not constitute abuse as it is used in domestic violence work.

Verbal abuse becomes abuse vs. just mean words when it constitutes a chronic tactic by one partner to force his or her will on the other partner, such as through fear or humiliation or gaslighting. This can only be diagnosed by skillfully teasing out the pattern of the relationship over time, which is why abusers tend to be perfectly happy dissecting a single incident with a pastor or counselor for hours or days, trading he-said-she-said claims about exactly who said what and how it went down. This is how inexperienced pastors and counselors often become weaponized, because they don't know how to do the zooming out to the big picture that's essential for determining whether one is dealing with a couple who simply need better conflict skills, or a case of one partner chronically harming and dehumanizing the other.

And your point about the genuine harm caused by verbal abuse cannot be overstated. Brain scans of women who have suffered long-term verbal and emotional abuse show patterns of PTSD damage comparable in severity to the brains of combat veterans. Victims of this type of abuse often say they prefer when their partner physically hits them, because it's concrete, has a clear start and end, and generally is followed by a respite. There is no quick and easy "getting over" the cognitive and emotional scars produced by sustained verbal and emotional abuse, and we have many walking wounded women in Plain churches who have never received meaningful care for these scars, or who were forced to leave their church and culture to find it.

[jahertz]

I'll add in the interest of full disclosure that I will have more time than usual to spend behind the keyboard during the next few days or weeks while recovering from a recent traumatic brain injury, but by the same token, I am cognitively fragile in ways I can't always predict, whether due to the injury itself or to the medication I am taking for recovery. I have experienced one incident already in which I had an embarrassing and uncharacteristic meltdown in an online discussion that I had to apologize for later. Having had very stable moods all my life, this is a new type of challenge for me, and while I will do my best to catch such mood swings building and take a time out before they inconvenience others, I cannot promise I will always succeed.

This is not a request to be treated with kid gloves or an excuse for toxic behavior, just a plea for whatever forbearance you feel this information warrants going forward should I fail temporarily to meet the standards of civil discourse I seek to hold myself to as a gentleman and a believer. Thank you for your indulgence!

I am enheartened by your openness. I pray God's blessing for you during this difficult time. (Personally, I have found that if I have a "catch" in my spirit after having written something - a hesitation to hit the Submit button, if i put it into a document file and re-read it later, I very often send the whole thing in the trash bin. And there are times when I had the feeling that I should wait, and just went ahead & hit the button to submit, then need to apologize later. Same thing with email messages, and although I don't often use text messaging, that too.)

Yes, I've tried to follow a similar plan. With emails, I sometimes use my wife as a filter, and if she gives it the green light, I go ahead and send it, or edit it until she can.

An added piece of the puzzle for me spiritually is that I have always had a gift for verbal expression, and I can and often have leveled devastating intensities of snark at online opponents, probably including deep in the archives of this very forum, generally to the detriment of everyone involved. My recent illness produced temporary aphasia that left me conscious but almost completely incapable of expressing myself verbally for about twelve hours. So I am now living with a much sharpened gratitude for God's gift of words, and a holy fear of abusing it. This is not the beginning of God's work in convicting me of my speech, but it seems like the latest salvo, and a deeply potent one. I pray the seed falls on fertile soil and bears the fruit of righteousness.

[steve-in-kville]

Thank you, Steve-in-Kville, for raising the question. Is there a story behind your initial impulse to raise this topic here?

The short version is my wife and I have known of marriages in the conservative community where something was just "off." Wife obviously being battered... strange bruises and some broken bones from "falling" and such. Victims were made to feel like they brought it onto themselves, the men were well respected and/or had deep pockets.

One case was brought to light recently, she got a temporary PFA on him, but the church made her feel like she had to forgive him and let him home again. Many thought charges should have been filed, but too many others were against using the law. The husband was very successful as a salesman all his life and so he was a smooth talker and got away with breaking his wife's arm, plus whatever abuse she endured in the previous years.

And I tried to make this short

[barnhart]

JAH, I pray for your full recovery, what a humbling experience.

The focus of my concern for domestic abuse among Anabaptists is authoritarian church/community structures that privilege men. I doubt there are more or fewer abusers than among the general population, but I fear for the women and girls who have little voice. I have put considerable energy into building church community where women have a voice, to the point that many would find me too far in the direction of egalitarianism, for this reason. I push back at "men's meetings" that are intended for making decisions rather than mutual encouragement or accountability. Authoritarian structures can accomplish a lot, nice buildings, stable conferences ect... but at what cost?

[jahertz]

Thank you, Steve-in-Kville, for raising the question. Is there a story behind your initial impulse to raise this topic here?

The short version is my wife and I have known of marriages in the conservative community where something was just "off." Wife obviously being battered... strange bruises and some broken bones from "falling" and such. Victims were made to feel like they brought it onto themselves, the men were well respected and/or had deep pockets.

One case was brought to light recently, she got a temporary PFA on him, but the church made her feel like she had to forgive him and let him home again. Many thought charges should have been filed, but too many others were against using the law. The husband was very successful as a salesman all his life and so he was a smooth talker and got away with breaking his wife's arm, plus whatever abuse she endured in the previous years.

And I tried to make this short

Thank you, Steve, for having eyes to see. Your account is classic and sounds like dozens I have personally heard, except that the women who can show physical bruises are the fortunate minority who at least can usually get someone to believe something happened. The rest of it is tragically par for the course.

A bizarre misunderstanding of the church's role often enters these situations, in that church leaders, even if they are willing to get the law involved in criminal cases, seem to start from the premise that if nothing illegal is happening, their hands are tied. But the church is not assigned to adjudicate the law of the land. She has a much higher calling: to hold believers accountable to the high calling of the gospel, and, when Gospel formation is not evident, to offer community support and intervention, up to and including expulsion from the body if a sinning member refuses to lay down wicked and destructive behaviors.

Most cruelty and domination toward one's spouse and children is not a legal issue, it's a spiritual one, and as such falls squarely under the church's purview. To fulfil that sacred responsibility, the church needs to be equipped and prepared to recognize and intervene effectively in such situations, and humble enough to recognize when its chosen response is proving ineffective.