Augustinians and War

[ken_sylvania]

Somewhere along the line "Christians" decided they could love their enemies with the barrel of a gun.

Here's a perfect example of that sort of thought, not from Christians per se, but the elite. This 20-year old op-ed hasn't aged well.



Of course he didn't actually do any "calculations" He was just speaking conventional wisdom out of his ****.

And now this elite New Yorker is suing in the Oregon Supreme Court to be allowed to run for governor in Oregon despite having voted in NYC for the past 20 years including 2020.

This++++++++++++++++

[Josh]

Ah, Kristoff, who frequently appears on CNN and writes op eds in the Old Gray Lady; always beating the drums of war despite not being personally at risk at all himself.

I did not know about his pivot from the East Coast to West, but I am not surprised at all to hear him trying to sneak into political office.

[Ken]

Ah, Kristoff, who frequently appears on CNN and writes op eds in the Old Gray Lady; always beating the drums of war despite not being personally at risk at all himself.

I did not know about his pivot from the East Coast to West, but I am not surprised at all to hear him trying to sneak into political office.

Yep, he thinks the fact that he grew up on a farm in Yamhill County (wine country outside Portland) and the fact that his family still owns land there entitles him to run for governor as an Oregonian despite the fact that the Oregon Constitution has a 3-year residency requirement for the governor's office. His candidacy was rejected by the Secretary of State so he is taking it to the Oregon Supreme Court: https://www.opb.org/article/2022/01/20/ ... -governor/

It is a vanity campaign. I don't live in Oregon anymore. But I don't see a NY liberal gaining any traction. The Democrats in the state have plenty of other local progressive candidates to chose from who actually live and work in Oregon. Republicans will have their own legitimately Republican candidates to choose from. I don't see a mushy east coast intellectual liberal type gaining any traction at all. There is just no constituency out here for him. He has already raised a ton of money but I suspect nearly all if it is from out-of-state.

[Gene]

I don't see a mushy east coast intellectual liberal type gaining any traction at all. There is just no constituency out here for him. He has already raised a ton of money but I suspect nearly all if it is from out-of-state.

Rather amusing that you don't think a mushy liberal has a chance in Oregon. All things considered, I would have thought that was the natural habitat for such fauna.

[Ken]

I don't see a mushy east coast intellectual liberal type gaining any traction at all. There is just no constituency out here for him. He has already raised a ton of money but I suspect nearly all if it is from out-of-state.

Rather amusing that you don't think a mushy liberal has a chance in Oregon. All things considered, I would have thought that was the natural habitat for such fauna.

The east coast part
And the mushy part as in too centrist.

Neither is going to play well in the OR democratic primary

[Sudsy]

Strange how politics and other things slip into a 'General Theology' sub forum. Seems politics is the new quasi-religion trend. Jesus isn't the answer anymore to most situations on earth.

[ohio jones]

Strange how politics and other things slip into a 'General Theology' sub forum. Seems politics is the new quasi-religion trend. Jesus isn't the answer anymore to most situations on earth.

If you are Augustinian enough to wage war on the off-topic posts, go for it.

For the others, I would recommend carrying on in Politics: Bunny Trails or starting a new thread.

[Gene]

Strange how politics and other things slip into a 'General Theology' sub forum. Seems politics is the new quasi-religion trend. Jesus isn't the answer anymore to most situations on earth.

If you are Augustinian enough to wage war on the off-topic posts, go for it.

For the others, I would recommend carrying on in Politics: Bunny Trails or starting a new thread.

Wouldn't that fail the Just War criteria on the grounds of having no chance whatsoever of prevailing, an exceedingly quixotic endeavor?

[temporal1]

Quixote attacked the non-existent. Bunny trails are real, however formidable.

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[silentreader]

To add a bit of nuance to the history: I think you'll find that the civic leaders were addressed as individuals, with the emphasis on exhorting them personally rather than on influencing public policy (though that would have been an indirect result). Sattler is not the one who brought up the Turks; he was responding to a loaded question, and did so forthrightly even though it probably cost him his life. He answered the theological inquisition directly from the scriptures, so they couldn't make any of those charges stick, but the application of scriptural principles to politics (even though his answer was a personal response, rather than framed as public policy) could not be tolerated.

Yes, but even this doesn't square with Ernie's silence approach. I heard his position articulated growing up, but I have developed some suspicion toward it, but I don't have a carefully considered alternative. To my thinking it leans too much into silence and passivity. Both have their place from time to time, but they do not summarize the role God intends for the church in society.

I tend to believe that God does use believers in His plans for the benefits of a society. However, I believe the main role we have is to represent and do our part in making disciples as this mission results in eternal consequences not just temporal ones. I think of the SA, Salvation Army, especially and how they are such a benefit in society in feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, etc. as Jesus desired His followers to do. And as the SA has demonstrated this can be done outside of government influence. However, I don't think the founder of the SA would be too pleased today with how the SA has, to some degree, lost it's eternal perspective, and is primarily known for it's social assistance and not the salvation of souls.

I currently have made a Salvation Army Corps in Newfoundland as my home on-line church as each week are doing all the various assistance work the SA is known for and are seeing souls saved every Sunday through their world wide Youtube meetings. I think General Booth, their founder, would be quite pleased with this ministry.

Regarding social programs, I participate in a small community service bringing shut-ins their main meal (Meals-on-Wheels). This service is not an 'evangelical' effort and no specific church is linked to this service. I believe we are to be involved in such good efforts and that Jesus would approve of them.

I think the problem with getting overly involved in government run programs and in persuading them to do more 'Christian' activities, we can lose an eternal perspective on what we are primarily to be involved in. As my father often preached 'what shall it profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his soul or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul ?'

God does use believers in temporal ways to bring about certain things in a society in His timing. And Jesus showed us to be very much engaged with sinners for their salvation and identified the various means to this end.

I guess I might have wandered off topic again but I believe Jesus example was far from being 'the quiet in the land'. I want nothing to do with worldly wars as we have our hands full if we are really engaged in spiritual warfare to bring down strongholds so people will come to the Lord. One area we need to keep working on is the warring amongst believers that chases folks away from God more than it does to bring them to God.

This type of 'inhouse warring' with each other and lack of active concern for the lost are the two main disappointments I have with much of Anabaptist Christianity. I think some Anabaptists see the flaws in the kind of gospel being presented by certain Evangelicals and don't want to go that route just to get numbers. That, to me, is a good start. Now we need some Anabaptists to lead the way to breakaway from hindering traditions and go to war putting on spiritual armor and being revived to our first love to reach the lost.

I guess the Anabaptism, Be In Christ, Meeting House in Toronto with their 19 satellite churches appeals most to me although at present their teaching pastor Bruxy Cavey is placed on a leave of absence pending investigations on certain allegations. This Anabaptist group would be quite a stretch for most of the Mennonites in our city. Bruxy in Toronto and Greg Boyd, in St.Paul Minnesota are more along the Anabaptist teachings I enjoy most.

Well, better quit drifting off again into other topics. Carry on.

I wasn't aware how far this had gone....

https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/ ... ation.html

Just another wolf in sheep's clothing joining the list, it seems.