We try to comply with all relevant Maryland regulations. I don’t really deal with stuff in Pennsylvania, but the general feeling in KMF is that we do our best to comply. We use the guidelines from the EPMC, as do other churches. Obviously, we do not feel the need in Maryland to comply with PA’s regulations. My info was sent into the state, but only because I am teaching middle school half time.
York left KMF last year, so I don’t get up there much.
I’ve never heard this before. I tried doing a Google search but didn’t find anything relevant. Do you have any links?
I can understand that a volunteer church janitor doesn’t need the clearances, but I would be surprised if a childrens Sunday school teacher would be exempt.
It is ambiguous if it is required for adult Sunday school which is what I was referring to. Compliance with this in PA is extremely poor. Nonetheless Keystone requires compliance with this for basically all church jobs last I heard. At least in the districts encompassing Baltimore and York. Judas Maccabaeus could probably comment further.
I think requiring the state to approve someone and be fingerprinted in order to conduct church is absurd, and it does zilch to prevent abuse, particularly in an Anabaptist context. Most abusers don’t have a criminal record.
We are in Maryland, for church volunteers, no background checks are required. Since KMF does not have a paid ministry, none required there either. There is a requirement for such checks for preschool and elementary teachers in our school.
We try to comply with all relevant Maryland regulations. I don’t really deal with stuff in Pennsylvania, but the general feeling in KMF is that we do our best to comply. We use the guidelines from the EPMC, as do other churches. Obviously, we do not feel the need in Maryland to comply with PA’s regulations. My info was sent into the state, but only because I am teaching middle school half time.
York left KMF last year, so I don’t get up there much.
Judas Maccabeus
Would most KMF churches also investigate and go through the ‘reconciliation process’ before deciding if reporting is warranted? Or is that just a few churches who partnered with a specific Mid Atlantic church?
Sliceitup wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:43 am
Would most KMF churches also investigate and go through the ‘reconciliation process’ before deciding if reporting is warranted? Or is that just a few churches who partnered with a specific Mid Atlantic church?
After the CAM debacle three years ago, many did put policies in writing... KMF, Hope, Pilgrim, etc. However the real test came when survivors came forward and told their stories. Many were quickly dismissed for various reasons or another. I know of one situation that got reported to CPS... the rest were swept under the rug.
steve-in-kville wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:28 am
After the CAM debacle three years ago, many did put policies in writing... KMF, Hope, Pilgrim, etc. However the real test came when survivors came forward and told their stories. Many were quickly dismissed for various reasons or another. I know of one situation that got reported to CPS... the rest were swept under the rug.
steve-in-kville wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:00 am
If Matthew 18 was used like it was intended, our ministry leaders would run out of things to do We are too quick to rat someone out, cause all manner of hard feelings, then to go work something out.
What exactly is the difference in “swept under the rug” vs. “rat someone out” (as you mentioned in another thread)?
RZehr wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:57 am
What exactly is the difference in “swept under the rug” vs. “rat someone out” (as you mentioned in another thread)?
Not sure what answer you're looking for, but here goes. By swept under the rug I mean that abuse was reported to the ministry but no action was taken due to the social standing of the perpetrator.
Being rat is all about motives: someone is typically being a busy body and is trying to stir up trouble for someone else, typically making mountain out of molehills.
RZehr wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:57 am
What exactly is the difference in “swept under the rug” vs. “rat someone out” (as you mentioned in another thread)?
Not sure what answer you're looking for, but here goes. By swept under the rug I mean that abuse was reported to the ministry but no action was taken due to the social standing of the perpetrator.
Being rat is all about motives: someone is typically being a busy body and is trying to stir up trouble for someone else, typically making mountain out of molehills.
It is ambiguous if it is required for adult Sunday school which is what I was referring to. Compliance with this in PA is extremely poor. Nonetheless Keystone requires compliance with this for basically all church jobs last I heard. At least in the districts encompassing Baltimore and York. Judas Maccabaeus could probably comment further.
I think requiring the state to approve someone and be fingerprinted in order to conduct church is absurd, and it does zilch to prevent abuse, particularly in an Anabaptist context. Most abusers don’t have a criminal record.
We are in Maryland, for church volunteers, no background checks are required. Since KMF does not have a paid ministry, none required there either. There is a requirement for such checks for preschool and elementary teachers in our school.
We try to comply with all relevant Maryland regulations. I don’t really deal with stuff in Pennsylvania, but the general feeling in KMF is that we do our best to comply. We use the guidelines from the EPMC, as do other churches. Obviously, we do not feel the need in Maryland to comply with PA’s regulations. My info was sent into the state, but only because I am teaching middle school half time.
York left KMF last year, so I don’t get up there much.
Judas Maccabeus
Would most KMF churches also investigate and go through the ‘reconciliation process’ before deciding if reporting is warranted? Or is that just a few churches who partnered with a specific Mid Atlantic church?
The policy in place is that you will report, when an allegation is made. Why people go to the ministry to report a crime is beyond me. The rules we are required to follow are quite explicit, and must be reviewed periodically. Our version of it mandates canceling Sunday school when there wil not be at least two students in a class. All the doors have large windows, the SS superintendent random visits each class daily, our VBS is done outdoors and there is almost 100 % video recorder coverage due to the presence of the school. Our bishop that did the training very clearly stated if such an allegation is made, you will report it, and let the authorities investigate.
We are in Maryland, for church volunteers, no background checks are required. Since KMF does not have a paid ministry, none required there either. There is a requirement for such checks for preschool and elementary teachers in our school.
We try to comply with all relevant Maryland regulations. I don’t really deal with stuff in Pennsylvania, but the general feeling in KMF is that we do our best to comply. We use the guidelines from the EPMC, as do other churches. Obviously, we do not feel the need in Maryland to comply with PA’s regulations. My info was sent into the state, but only because I am teaching middle school half time.
York left KMF last year, so I don’t get up there much.
Judas Maccabeus
Would most KMF churches also investigate and go through the ‘reconciliation process’ before deciding if reporting is warranted? Or is that just a few churches who partnered with a specific Mid Atlantic church?
The policy in place is that you will report, when an allegation is made. Why people go to the ministry to report a crime is beyond me. The rules we are required to follow are quite explicit, and must be reviewed periodically. Our version of it mandates canceling Sunday school when there wil not be at least two students in a class. All the doors have large windows, the SS superintendent random visits each class daily, our VBS is done outdoors and there is almost 100 % video recorder coverage due to the presence of the school. Our bishop that did the training very clearly stated if such an allegation is made, you will report it, and let the authorities investigate.
How much more can we do?
Judas Maccabeus
That is why schools and other institutions have explicit policies in place. Even if it might be overkill. Because the alternative is to leave it up to the discretion of administrators who can make mistakes (Jeriah Mast). Many administrators don’t actually want that discretion. They just want an established set of procedures to follow. For understandable reasons.
That is also the reason for mandatory reporting laws. So that people don’t stress about what they are supposed to do or need to do. They just report and leave it up to the authorities who’s job it is to investigate.
1 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
We are in Maryland, for church volunteers, no background checks are required. Since KMF does not have a paid ministry, none required there either. There is a requirement for such checks for preschool and elementary teachers in our school.
We try to comply with all relevant Maryland regulations. I don’t really deal with stuff in Pennsylvania, but the general feeling in KMF is that we do our best to comply. We use the guidelines from the EPMC, as do other churches. Obviously, we do not feel the need in Maryland to comply with PA’s regulations. My info was sent into the state, but only because I am teaching middle school half time.
York left KMF last year, so I don’t get up there much.
Judas Maccabeus
Would most KMF churches also investigate and go through the ‘reconciliation process’ before deciding if reporting is warranted? Or is that just a few churches who partnered with a specific Mid Atlantic church?
The policy in place is that you will report, when an allegation is made. Why people go to the ministry to report a crime is beyond me. The rules we are required to follow are quite explicit, and must be reviewed periodically. Our version of it mandates canceling Sunday school when there wil not be at least two students in a class. All the doors have large windows, the SS superintendent random visits each class daily, our VBS is done outdoors and there is almost 100 % video recorder coverage due to the presence of the school. Our bishop that did the training very clearly stated if such an allegation is made, you will report it, and let the authorities investigate.
How much more can we do?
Judas Maccabeus
I’m in agreement that reporting a crime to the ministry isn’t the way to handle it. The photos I have attached are papers that were handed out to at least one KMF church and it is written in a way that would imply it was the policy for the KMF and Mid Atlantic conferences. The following lines are what I find particularly problematic, because I don’t see how following the redemptive process is something that needs to be done before the legal process. Not to mention the fact that church leadership is very rarely qualified to investigate such matters.
We are concerned about the mandatory reporting requirements because it demands a report out to the state before the redemptive process outlined in scripture can be followed. We desire our churches to be places of redemption, reconcillation, and healing where anyone who is obstinate, proud or angry would change to a loving caregiver by submitting to the lord and his church. in the event that one of our members would not heed the redemptive process of the church they would be excommunicated and turned over to the state for investigation and punishment. We are not resisting the concept of reporting out where needed, we are
appealing for space for the church to work through a redemptive process bringing the person to healing and
wholeness before having to report them out to the state.
Szdfan wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:19 am
MCUSA requires background checks (but not fingerprints) as part of its pastoral process — this is handled on the national denominational level rather than the conference or the local church level.
I am aware of cases where the denomination or the conference did not communicate previous complaints that were in a pastor’s file to the local congregation during the pastoral discernment process.
I have been fingerprinted as a high school English teacher.
Yeah, I've been fingerprinted MULTIPLE times, even just to do afterschool/volunteer work in a public school setting.
We are too quick to rat someone out, cause all manner of hard feelings, then to go work something out.