Roe and Guns

[Robert]

Both to provide for the common defense

The FBI does not provide for the common defense. I am not saying there is not legitimate reasons for it. I am just saying it has nothing to do with common defense. They investigate things inside the USA.

[Ken]

Both to provide for the common defense

The FBI does not provide for the common defense. I am not saying there is not legitimate reasons for it. I am just saying it has nothing to do with common defense. They investigate things inside the USA.

I believe that their four important missions of the FBI least as reflected in terms of budget are (1) counter-terrorism, (2) counter-espionage, (3) cybercrime (like Chinese or Russian or Iranian government infiltration into US computers), and (4) organized crime like international drug cartels.

How are those not related to the common defense? Those are all collective threats to the safety and welfare of the US. And none of them are tasks that local/state police are equipped to take on.

Defense of the nation is more than simply military.

[Szdfan]

From my Internet searching, it’s possible to own a tank with an operating turret, but it’s not cheap or easy. Functional tanks are classified as “destructive devices” under the National Firearms Act of 1934. You have to go through an application and background check process. It’s easier to purchase a functional tank that’s already in the US, but most tanks in the US are demilitarized and don’t have functioning turrets. You are more likely to find a functioning tank overseas, but it’s a lot more expensive and harder to import.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-g ... initions-1

For the purposes of the National Firearms Act, the term “Destructive Device” means:

A missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than 1/4 oz.

Any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may readily be converted to expel a projectile, by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore greater than one-half inch in diameter.

A combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting a device into a destructive device and from which a destructive device can be readily assembled.

Of course owning an active tank is also subject to state and local laws. It doesn’t seem that California allows private ownership of destructive devices. In some jurisdictions, local law enforcement has to sign off on it.

The other caveat is that the only tanks on the market are older models, you are not going to be able to buy the latest M1 Abrams.

Of course, if the turret is non-operational, there aren’t any federal restrictions at all and so if you have tens of thousands of dollars laying around, you too can own a Soviet T-34.

[ken_sylvania]

From my Internet searching, it’s possible to own a tank with an operating turret, but it’s not cheap or easy. Functional tanks are classified as “destructive devices” under the National Firearms Act of 1934. You have to go through an application and background check process. It’s easier to purchase a functional tank that’s already in the US, but most tanks in the US are demilitarized and don’t have functioning turrets. You are more likely to find a functioning tank overseas, but it’s a lot more expensive and harder to import.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-g ... initions-1

For the purposes of the National Firearms Act, the term “Destructive Device” means:

A missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than 1/4 oz.

Any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may readily be converted to expel a projectile, by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore greater than one-half inch in diameter.

A combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting a device into a destructive device and from which a destructive device can be readily assembled.

Of course owning an active tank is also subject to state and local laws. It doesn’t seem that California allows private ownership of destructive devices. In some jurisdictions, local law enforcement has to sign off on it.

The other caveat is that the only tanks on the market are older models, you are not going to be able to buy the latest M1 Abrams.

Of course, if the turret is non-operational, there aren’t any federal restrictions at all and so if you have tens of thousands of dollars laying around, you too can own a Soviet T-34.

Does this mean that, unless I have a permit, a spud gun is just as illegal as a tank with a fully operational cannon?

[Robert]

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/mayor ... d/1077350/

Underlines are mine.

Highland Park, Illinois, Mayor Nancy Rotering says the gun used in the mass shooting Monday at a Fourth of July parade was "legally obtained."

"I don't know where the gun came from, but I do know that it was legally obtained," she said Tuesday during an interview on NBC's "Today show."

"I think at some point the nation needs to have a conversation about these weekly events involving the murder of dozens of people with legally obtained guns. If that is what our laws stand for, then I think we need to re-examine the laws."

Rotering said Highland Park suffered "unbelievable sadness" from the shootings.

"This tragedy should never have arrived at our doorsteps," she said. "It's one of these things that you ask yourself: If this reflects the values of who we are, then what does it say about us as a nation?"

Regarding the suspect, she said: "I don't believe he was previously known to police until yesterday. I know him as somebody who was once a Cub Scout, when I was the Cub Scout leader."

Robert E. Crimo III, 22, was taken into custody Monday after police identified him as a person of interest in the shooting that killed at least six people and wounded at least 30, The Associated Press reported.

If they do not know where the gun came from, how do they know it was obtained legally?

At what point does this culture start accepting that the way it has been raising its children needs to be addressed? If the child is not violent, then they will not seek ways to enact violence. Did this person grow up in a stable environment with a father? Was he raised in a school system that treated him as a number instead of a person? I think we will find disfunction in many of these shooters lives and we should be able to start tracking common things that start to shape these people.

Our culture teaches life is not precious. Why do they think that will not have side effect of extremely impressionable people to take that to the next step?

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/0 ... fa-occult/

Crimo has ties to the Democratic Socialists of America as noted by the tattoo on his neck. This is the largest and fastest-growing socialist organization in the US.

Throughout his social media posts he shares Antifa and progressive symbology.

Crimo’s work is also very dark. He uses an icon throughout his social media. This icon comes from ‘mystic set with magic circles, pentagrams and imaginary chakras symbols. Collection of icons with witchcraft and occult handwriting letters.’ He shares the icon throughout his media posts.

[Grace]

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/mayor ... d/1077350/

Underlines are mine.

Highland Park, Illinois, Mayor Nancy Rotering says the gun used in the mass shooting Monday at a Fourth of July parade was "legally obtained."

"I don't know where the gun came from, but I do know that it was legally obtained," she said Tuesday during an interview on NBC's "Today show."

"I think at some point the nation needs to have a conversation about these weekly events involving the murder of dozens of people with legally obtained guns. If that is what our laws stand for, then I think we need to re-examine the laws."

Rotering said Highland Park suffered "unbelievable sadness" from the shootings.

"This tragedy should never have arrived at our doorsteps," she said. "It's one of these things that you ask yourself: If this reflects the values of who we are, then what does it say about us as a nation?"

Regarding the suspect, she said: "I don't believe he was previously known to police until yesterday. I know him as somebody who was once a Cub Scout, when I was the Cub Scout leader."

Robert E. Crimo III, 22, was taken into custody Monday after police identified him as a person of interest in the shooting that killed at least six people and wounded at least 30, The Associated Press reported.

If they do not know where the gun came from, how do they know it was obtained legally?

At what point does this culture start accepting that the way it has been raising its children needs to be addressed? If the child is not violent, then they will not seek ways to enact violence. Did this person grow up in a stable environment with a father? Was he raised in a school system that treated him as a number instead of a person? I think we will find disfunction in many of these shooters lives and we should be able to start tracking common things that start to shape these people.

Our culture teaches life is not precious. Why do they think that will not have side effect of extremely impressionable people to take that to the next step?

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/0 ... fa-occult/

Crimo has ties to the Democratic Socialists of America as noted by the tattoo on his neck. This is the largest and fastest-growing socialist organization in the US.

Throughout his social media posts he shares Antifa and progressive symbology.

Crimo’s work is also very dark. He uses an icon throughout his social media. This icon comes from ‘mystic set with magic circles, pentagrams and imaginary chakras symbols. Collection of icons with witchcraft and occult handwriting letters.’ He shares the icon throughout his media posts.

Not only does our culture teach that life is not precious. Our culture and schools teach that humans are no more than evolved pond scum.

On another note it is interesting that Illinois has some of the most stringent gun laws in the country. That includes a red flag law, a waiting period for gun purchases, background checks, gun owner licensing, and “open carry regulations.” This and other counties have “assault weapons” bans. None of that stopped the shooter.

I am not advocating for people to own assault rifles, but the fact Illinois strict gun laws didn't stop this shooter, is very telling as how well gun laws are not a deterrent in the hands of a disturbed person.

[RZehr]

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/mayor ... d/1077350/

Underlines are mine.

Highland Park, Illinois, Mayor Nancy Rotering says the gun used in the mass shooting Monday at a Fourth of July parade was "legally obtained."

"I don't know where the gun came from, but I do know that it was legally obtained," she said Tuesday during an interview on NBC's "Today show."

"I think at some point the nation needs to have a conversation about these weekly events involving the murder of dozens of people with legally obtained guns. If that is what our laws stand for, then I think we need to re-examine the laws."

Rotering said Highland Park suffered "unbelievable sadness" from the shootings.

"This tragedy should never have arrived at our doorsteps," she said. "It's one of these things that you ask yourself: If this reflects the values of who we are, then what does it say about us as a nation?"

Regarding the suspect, she said: "I don't believe he was previously known to police until yesterday. I know him as somebody who was once a Cub Scout, when I was the Cub Scout leader."

Robert E. Crimo III, 22, was taken into custody Monday after police identified him as a person of interest in the shooting that killed at least six people and wounded at least 30, The Associated Press reported.

If they do not know where the gun came from, how do they know it was obtained legally?

.....

Perhaps law enforcement was able to confirm that it was legally obtained, and told the Mayor that.
Beyond that, perhaps-
- finding where it came from was not asked immediately
- finding where it came from takes longer to determine

[Only an Anz]

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/mayor ... d/1077350/

Underlines are mine.

Highland Park, Illinois, Mayor Nancy Rotering says the gun used in the mass shooting Monday at a Fourth of July parade was "legally obtained."

"I don't know where the gun came from, but I do know that it was legally obtained," she said Tuesday during an interview on NBC's "Today show."

"I think at some point the nation needs to have a conversation about these weekly events involving the murder of dozens of people with legally obtained guns. If that is what our laws stand for, then I think we need to re-examine the laws."

Rotering said Highland Park suffered "unbelievable sadness" from the shootings.

"This tragedy should never have arrived at our doorsteps," she said. "It's one of these things that you ask yourself: If this reflects the values of who we are, then what does it say about us as a nation?"

Regarding the suspect, she said: "I don't believe he was previously known to police until yesterday. I know him as somebody who was once a Cub Scout, when I was the Cub Scout leader."

Robert E. Crimo III, 22, was taken into custody Monday after police identified him as a person of interest in the shooting that killed at least six people and wounded at least 30, The Associated Press reported.

If they do not know where the gun came from, how do they know it was obtained legally?

At what point does this culture start accepting that the way it has been raising its children needs to be addressed? If the child is not violent, then they will not seek ways to enact violence. Did this person grow up in a stable environment with a father? Was he raised in a school system that treated him as a number instead of a person? I think we will find disfunction in many of these shooters lives and we should be able to start tracking common things that start to shape these people.

Our culture teaches life is not precious. Why do they think that will not have side effect of extremely impressionable people to take that to the next step?

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/0 ... fa-occult/

Crimo has ties to the Democratic Socialists of America as noted by the tattoo on his neck. This is the largest and fastest-growing socialist organization in the US.

Throughout his social media posts he shares Antifa and progressive symbology.

Crimo’s work is also very dark. He uses an icon throughout his social media. This icon comes from ‘mystic set with magic circles, pentagrams and imaginary chakras symbols. Collection of icons with witchcraft and occult handwriting letters.’ He shares the icon throughout his media posts.

The way i read this: Mayor knows the shooter had a gun permit & therefore assumes/makes a logical leap that he bought the gun legally.

OR:

Mayor knows where he bought the gun but would rather not bring down wrath of the public on a local gun store.

[Szdfan]

Does this mean that, unless I have a permit, a spud gun is just as illegal as a tank with a fully operational cannon?

This is what Wikipedia says:

The ATF has previously examined potato guns or spud guns as devices using potatoes as projectiles and used solely for recreational purposes, do not meet the criteria of a destructive device defined by the National Firearms Act, or the Gun Control Act. They have however classified said guns as destructive devices when they used incendiary tennis balls.

According to the NFA and GCA previously mentioned, it must be muzzle loaded, not rifled, or use any projectile which is intended to be used as a weapon. Any device using compressed air would be completely exempt from both.

Several states have restricted their use beyond the federal laws, and may either prohibit or ban the possession, sale or transfer of a spud gun.

[Only an Anz]

Does this mean that, unless I have a permit, a spud gun is just as illegal as a tank with a fully operational cannon?

This is what Wikipedia says:

The ATF has previously examined potato guns or spud guns as devices using potatoes as projectiles and used solely for recreational purposes, do not meet the criteria of a destructive device defined by the National Firearms Act, or the Gun Control Act. They have however classified said guns as destructive devices when they used incendiary tennis balls.

According to the NFA and GCA previously mentioned, it must be muzzle loaded, not rifled, or use any projectile which is intended to be used as a weapon. Any device using compressed air would be completely exempt from both.

Several states have restricted their use beyond the federal laws, and may either prohibit or ban the possession, sale or transfer of a spud gun.

So...I know a guy who has a cannon that shoots bowling balls. Thoughts?