My statement of Faith:
I belive in God the Father.
I believe the Son is of the Father, the Father in the Son, and the Son in the Father.
I believe the Holy Spirit is of Christ, the Christ in the Spirit, the Spirit in Christ and in us as the body of Christ.
The head, Christ, knows what this means. I do not. Everything men opine on the subject is the imagination of men.
We are the body. The body feels the oneness, it does not understand it. Understanding is in the Head, in Christ.
Christology
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temporal1
Re: Christology
i hope folks will view/listen. i have viewed twice, and again in part.
i long for transcripts!
There is just something (intangible?) about testimonies of converted Jews. Here is a discussion between 2!
What is it?!
There is something remarkable and undeniable to be able to be so touched by such a range of humankind, whether Dr Michael Brown, Ty Smith, Thomas Sowell, Alveda King .. sometimes i just gasp at the range of voices+experiences! Yet. There they are. God’s creation.
i’m dumbfounded God allows me these glimpses. not deserved. gifted.
Outsider:
.. We are the body. The body feels the oneness, it does not understand it. Understanding is in the Head, in Christ.
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Outsider
Re: Christology
The reason for this thread:
What I gave as my "statement of faith" is what is written in the Bible about the relationship between, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. The point being, that that description fits all the major Christologies other than the Ebionite, Muslim, school (where Jesus is just a prophet).
It fits the Trinitarian- "one substance, three persons".
It fits the Modalist- "one person, three manifestations".
It fits the Arian- "the Father is one, the Son is divine, and created all, but is subordinate" I assume that their take on the Spirit is the same as the trinitarian, because this is the only difference cited between the views.
All three of these can be supported by scripture. BUT none of these particular explanations of the meaning of the scriptural passages supporting them are ever stated in the form of the conclusions the various theologians developed.
Because these are the ideas of the theologians. Theologians who cheerfully slayed each other for century upon century over the dispute.
And the supporters of all of the various Christologies have engaged in this antichrist behavior.
What if your particular imagining of the Godhead is correct? If you think they diminish Christ- he is humble, and merciful. He gave his life for you. If you think they elevate Christ- God is merciful, and he has set Christ over us as a Serpent in the Wilderness. If you think they are One- then he is merciful and full of grace to the ignorant.
I do not state my faith as being based on any of these theological foundations. My faith is in the Word, and in the God who sent him, and that his Spirit moves in those who confess the Christ. I do not need to understand but that all are of the God of love, and mercy towards sinners and infants. And the best of us are toddlers before the lord.
What I gave as my "statement of faith" is what is written in the Bible about the relationship between, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. The point being, that that description fits all the major Christologies other than the Ebionite, Muslim, school (where Jesus is just a prophet).
It fits the Trinitarian- "one substance, three persons".
It fits the Modalist- "one person, three manifestations".
It fits the Arian- "the Father is one, the Son is divine, and created all, but is subordinate" I assume that their take on the Spirit is the same as the trinitarian, because this is the only difference cited between the views.
All three of these can be supported by scripture. BUT none of these particular explanations of the meaning of the scriptural passages supporting them are ever stated in the form of the conclusions the various theologians developed.
Because these are the ideas of the theologians. Theologians who cheerfully slayed each other for century upon century over the dispute.
And the supporters of all of the various Christologies have engaged in this antichrist behavior.
What if your particular imagining of the Godhead is correct? If you think they diminish Christ- he is humble, and merciful. He gave his life for you. If you think they elevate Christ- God is merciful, and he has set Christ over us as a Serpent in the Wilderness. If you think they are One- then he is merciful and full of grace to the ignorant.
I do not state my faith as being based on any of these theological foundations. My faith is in the Word, and in the God who sent him, and that his Spirit moves in those who confess the Christ. I do not need to understand but that all are of the God of love, and mercy towards sinners and infants. And the best of us are toddlers before the lord.
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MaxPC
Re: Christology
1 Corinthians 13:12-13
12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. 13 So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. 13 So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
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PetrChelcicky
Re: Christology
Of course, if we treat Christology as a separate matter, we can shun the finer distinctions and retreat to some vague Bible quotations.
The finer distinctions come to life if we engage with really relevant matters like soteriology.
In soteriology, there's a plump variant which tells that
a) the father has invented some deliberate laws
b) men do or can not follow them, which makes the father angry
c) so that he has to sacrifice his son in order to pacify himself, or, alternately,
d) the son sacrifices himself for to pacify the father.
It is an interesting family drama, but a lot of people have qualms with it.You can avoid it e.g. by modalism - which tells us that there is no family there at all, but only one and the same person.
The finer distinctions come to life if we engage with really relevant matters like soteriology.
In soteriology, there's a plump variant which tells that
a) the father has invented some deliberate laws
b) men do or can not follow them, which makes the father angry
c) so that he has to sacrifice his son in order to pacify himself, or, alternately,
d) the son sacrifices himself for to pacify the father.
It is an interesting family drama, but a lot of people have qualms with it.You can avoid it e.g. by modalism - which tells us that there is no family there at all, but only one and the same person.
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Outsider
Re: Christology
I really don't have any interest in the various navel-gazings used to advance the various theory's behind the views. A think the sine quo non for a Christian is that he was born of God, lived in the Spirit of God, died in the flesh for Men, and rose to Glory.PetrChelcicky wrote: ↑Sat Jul 23, 2022 8:21 am Of course, if we treat Christology as a separate matter, we can shun the finer distinctions and retreat to some vague Bible quotations.
The finer distinctions come to life if we engage with really relevant matters like soteriology.
In soteriology, there's a plump variant which tells that
a) the father has invented some deliberate laws
b) men do or can not follow them, which makes the father angry
c) so that he has to sacrifice his son in order to pacify himself, or, alternately,
d) the son sacrifices himself for to pacify the father.
It is an interesting family drama, but a lot of people have qualms with it.You can avoid it e.g. by modalism - which tells us that there is no family there at all, but only one and the same person.
If you believe he had the Spirit of God, you don't have to know the details.
You can't go wrong there.
Matthew 12:31-32
"Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. "
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