Szdfan wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:36 am
Maybe. I think he sees a conflict between the conservative reaction to Covid and abortion.
COVID was about instituting massive amounts of state control to kick people out of their jobs, print lots of money, and make the richer in this country much richer - whilst everyone else got poorer.
Conservatives weren't on board with that, although many (such as myself) agreed to lock down for a few weeks or months and take precautions. After several months, it became obvious it was about control: shutting down churches, shutting down businesses, meanwhile big business and the wealthy all got bigger and wealthier.
Could you explain what the proper "pro life" position would be? Please keep in mind that Dr. Birx just testified before Congress that, no, masks didn't work. And COVID vaccines don't work either: people who are vaccinated keep getting COVID, over and over.
Szdfan wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:36 am
Maybe. I think he sees a conflict between the conservative reaction to Covid and abortion. Covid affected some of the most vulnerable demographics in the US and the reaction by conservatives was that mandated masks, vaccines and social distancing was a violation of personal bodily autonomy. I think he’s disquieted by the sense among conservatives that imposed personal sacrifice is something that other people do.
You and I may disagree on some of these points, but I would have been fine with some of those restrictions for Covid if they actually worked and were grounded in strong science. They were not and were more fear tactics and fear responses, as we see now that none of those efforts really did much. I know many who felt the same. You may not see these things the same, so you can conflate them easier then I can.
Abortion is the killing of the fetus/baby/human. There is no middle ground or doubt. Covid precautions were dubious, at best. They were never grounded in solid science. Some of that was because there was little evidence since we were in the early stages and much was unknown. After a while, we knew and it was still being used to manipulate and control. I see Covid response and abortion as two totally separate things.
I do think we need to be honest, open and consistent. I have no issue with him bringing up these points. I just disagree with them, but they are worth considering.
0 x
Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.
I think I am funnier than I really am.
The social order is in fact ordered—shaped and constructed by human law, and sometimes even by positive law. But no positive law, to my mind, has so fundamentally ordered the life of the nation as Roe v. Wade; no law has so tangibly made us a certain kind of people as the one that allowed us to be killed as the result of a prenatal test, of an economic decision. No law has so thoroughly de-radicalized the American people, saying that to be American is to be able to kill others for the sake of the maintenance of whatever goods our society currently offers: we can kill to go to college, kill to have sex, kill for our careers, kill to maintain our name, prestige, class. By killing we are irrevocably bound to worship and adore the things for which we have killed. We become bound by bloodguilt, forever forced to believe in the preeminent value of the goods America offers over and against the value of life itself. We killed to go to college—fine, then we must never, ever question the value of college. We killed for individual freedom—now we must either worship at its altar, or stand convicted as murderers. Roe vs. Wade tied us to our culture and sacralized our institutions by offering, as a mystical and original right, the ability to kill our children in order to have American life, and have it to the fullest.
Szdfan wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:36 am
Maybe. I think he sees a conflict between the conservative reaction to Covid and abortion. Covid affected some of the most vulnerable demographics in the US and the reaction by conservatives was that mandated masks, vaccines and social distancing was a violation of personal bodily autonomy. I think he’s disquieted by the sense among conservatives that imposed personal sacrifice is something that other people do.
The most vulnerable demographics were FAR more affected by economic impacts downstream from the COVID response than the reality of the disease itself.
MaxPC wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:00 am
I am grateful to the Lord that this has been decided.
Here is the Supreme Court pdf copy of the full decision in 19-1392 Dobbs v. Jackson.
In truth, has any group of Christians dedicated more effort to this, in every practical hands-on way, than Catholics?
Pro life, pro traditional family. (With the exceptions of those elected to high political office.)
Those such as Biden, Pelosi, and others who call themselves Catholic yet vigorously promote abortion have de facto excommunicated themselves. They are no longer in communion and therefore, in the minds of many, no longer Catholic.
MaxPC wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:00 am
I am grateful to the Lord that this has been decided.
Here is the Supreme Court pdf copy of the full decision in 19-1392 Dobbs v. Jackson.
In truth, has any group of Christians dedicated more effort to this, in every practical hands-on way, than Catholics?
Pro life, pro traditional family. (With the exceptions of those elected to high political office.)
Those such as Biden, Pelosi, and others who call themselves Catholic yet vigorously promote abortion have de facto excommunicated themselves. They are no longer in communion and therefore, in the minds of many, no longer Catholic.
And in the case of Pelosi, an archbishop has made that very clear.
MaxPC wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:00 am
I am grateful to the Lord that this has been decided.
Here is the Supreme Court pdf copy of the full decision in 19-1392 Dobbs v. Jackson.
In truth, has any group of Christians dedicated more effort to this, in every practical hands-on way, than Catholics?
Pro life, pro traditional family. (With the exceptions of those elected to high political office.)
Those such as Biden, Pelosi, and others who call themselves Catholic yet vigorously promote abortion have de facto excommunicated themselves. They are no longer in communion and therefore, in the minds of many, no longer Catholic.
According to The Canadian Press, which I am unable to link here, Pelosi did receive communion at the Vatican. I don't know when, but I believe it is today's release.
silentreader wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:53 am
According to The Canadian Press, which I am unable to link here, Pelosi did receive communion at the Vatican. I don't know when, but I believe it is today's release.
As reported here, it was a mass Mass and the priest likely had no idea who she was.
silentreader wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:53 am
According to The Canadian Press, which I am unable to link here, Pelosi did receive communion at the Vatican. I don't know when, but I believe it is today's release.
As reported here, it was a mass Mass and the priest likely had no idea who she was.
According to the article you linked to:
Although Pelosi is barred from receiving it in San Francisco by the city's conservative archbishop, Salvatore Cordileone, she regularly takes communion at a parish in Washington, D.C., where the archbishop of the U.S. capital allows it.
So MaxPC is wrong in his assertion that she is "no longer in communion and therefore, in the minds of many, no longer Catholic."
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Catholic doctrine (and virtually every other Christian denomination) is that one who takes Communion unworthily eats and drinks damnation unto himself. The purpose of excommunication is to warn the excommunicant so that they won't bring damnation upon themselves.
