Supreme Court Overturns Roe v. Wade

[temporal1]

This was VP Harris on CNN.

"If you are a parent of sons, do think about what this means for the life of your son and what that will mean in terms of the choices he will have."

Sounds fine to me. I’d like to raise my son with the understanding sex and having children is for marriage, and no, it’s not OK to pressure a girl to kill your baby just because you don’t want it.

Of course, true.
Notable, KH’s words were intended toward the opposite end: to be a threat. And to get VOTES via the threat.

Unfortunately, close family are known to support for abortion, too, not wanting their daughters to be burdened with children before education+careers. Schools push this, so do parents/families - not always due to incest!

But it’s known, PP/abortionists have covered up incest, pedophilia, prostitution, human trafficking, et al.; including multiple visits of one child/teen/woman.

Pregnant female children and teens are NOT women. Another language twist to beware.
“Pregnant female” is redundant. But in these times ..

[joey_the_ox]

Nowadays such sidewalk counselling is illegal (FACE act) and it’s much harder to protest in front of abortion clinics. But antifa has free reign to protest in front of crisis pregnancy support centres and to threaten them.

It is illegal, but some people do it anyway (for example see here). (I was pretty convicted by my own lack of action when I read that story.)

[temporal1]

Nowadays such sidewalk counselling is illegal (FACE act) and it’s much harder to protest in front of abortion clinics. But antifa has free reign to protest in front of crisis pregnancy support centres and to threaten them.

It is illegal, but some people do it anyway (for example see here). (I was pretty convicted by my own lack of action when I read that story.)

The public needs to know, voters need to know, the principle drive behind abortion is CORPORATE PROFITS.
Both for abortionists AND for sales of human baby body parts. Big money.

Women, teens, children are exploited for what can be grown, then harvested from their precious wombs. $$$$

Frankly, remove profits, this matter would immediately GO SILENT. “What women+children?!” - ARE YOU KIDDING ME.
100% deception/lies.

[Robert]

The public needs to know, voters need to know, the principle drive behind abortion is CORPORATE PROFITS.

I would disagree. I see it as western society's continued desire to have actions without consequences.

It also continues to degrade the sanctity of life.

There are deep moral, or lack of moral issues going on these days that has degraded the foundations of the culture. Read Judges. It happens over and over.

Anyone who thinks the ruling powers or government is your friend and can be trusted does not know history.

Through history ruling bodies stayed in power by the use of force. Now they just use the power of persuasion, but is the same end result. The ruling elites have and hold the power. We plebs are just too easily swayed by glitz and glamour of the word. They tell us what we want to hear and we give them permission to have our power. We want safety more than freedom. We want the safety of no consequences for our actions.

I want to be lazy, the government will pay.

I want to be permiscuous, remove the results.

Humans are ultimately lazy and do not want to accept the consequences of their actions. Individualism will ultimately fail because of that. Most want safety more than freedom. It is the few who want the freedom of choice along with facing the consequences of those choices.

[Josh]

Nowadays such sidewalk counselling is illegal (FACE act) and it’s much harder to protest in front of abortion clinics. But antifa has free reign to protest in front of crisis pregnancy support centres and to threaten them.

It is illegal, but some people do it anyway (for example see here). (I was pretty convicted by my own lack of action when I read that story.)

My mother has quite some tales to tell of what happened back in the late 80s and early 90s.

One of my childhood friends exists because someone was a very persistent street-preacher to his mother. (She'd already had several abortions.) Eventually both she and her boyfriend came to faith and were married. A nucleus of people who were all from very disordered, worldly lives, many with a background of fornication, abortion, and drug abuse.

The now-husband got busy trying to convert everyone he knew to Christianity, including the person who is my adopted sister. That was a long time ago. She is in her 60s now.

They were quite passionate about protesting in front of abortion clinics and would even chain themselves to the clinic doors, risking arrest for trespass. Many of them were indeed arrested, including my sister. She spent a weekend in the county jail.

Sadly, due to false doctrine ranging from everything from Marcionism to Calvinism to the "home church movement", most of those people aren't part of a church anymore. The churches they went into when they first came into faith no longer exist. Weak leaders and false teachers arose who divided the core of young believers, bringing in schism.

May we see Christ's church continue to grow and to see more young believers like I talked above baptised into the fold. The brave Supreme Court justices who chose life all hail from the Catholic church, with one Catholic who dissented. Justice Thomas in particular was deeply affected by his devout grandfather. I have thought about this a lot in the past few days - of the importance of keeping of the faith and of teaching sound doctrine, particularly in the area of abortion. The Catholic church's faithfulness not to compromise on the issue of abortion has and will save many young lives.

[Szdfan]

David French is another moderate conservative I read who in a recent peace, celebrates the end of Roe, but also express a deep disquiet about where the country and the conservative movement.

https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/r ... right-isnt

Through it all, I was guided by two burning convictions—that Roe represented a grave moral and constitutional wrong and that I belonged to a national Christian community that loved its fellow citizens, believed in a holistic ethic of life, and was ready, willing, and able to rise to the challenge of creating a truly pro-life culture.

I believe only one of those things today.

He affirms the end of Roe:

Now Roe is gone. Good. We should rejoice at its demise.

But.

In deep-red America, a wave of performative and punitive legislation is sweeping the land. In the abortion context, bounty-hunting laws in Texas, Idaho, and Oklahoma turn citizens against each other, incentivizing lawsuits even by people who haven’t been harmed by abortion. The pro-life movement, once solidly against prosecuting women who obtain abortions, is now split by an “abolitionist” wing that would not only impose criminal penalties on mothers, it even calls into questions legal protections for the life of the mother when a pregnancy is physically perilous.

In the meantime, the Republican branch of the American church is adopting the political culture of the secular right. With a few notable exceptions, it not only didn’t resist the hatred and fury of the MAGA movement, it was the MAGA movement. And this is the culture that’s going to lead the effort to heal our nation, love the marginalized, and ask young women to face an uncertain future and endure a physical ordeal for the sake of sacrificial love?

This brings me to a vital last point. It is a simple truth that when it comes to moral leadership, actions speak so much louder than words. That’s a truth that’s been instilled in me since my youth. Walk your talk.

And yet. Consider the last two years.

We are slowly but surely emerging from a deadly pandemic. It’s not that the disease has disappeared. Far from it. But the combination of mutations, vaccinations, and prior infections is making it far less deadly. Yet at every point in the pandemic, it was pro-life red America that loudly declared its bodily autonomy, disproportionately shunned even the slight inconvenience of a mask before the vaccine, and then disproportionately rejected the vaccine when it miraculously appeared mere months after the pandemic began.

Parts of pro-life red America moved from skepticism to outright defiance. “How dare you tell me what to do. This is my decision between me and my doctor.” They trafficked in pseudo-science and bizarre conspiracy theories. The cost was staggering. It was horrifying.

In the face of that wave of death, a wave of death created by a staggering amount of Christian fear, disinformation, and defiance—millions of the same people who created that culture now loudly demand that other people sacrifice for life.

When American culture burned with partisan hatred, all too many institutions of the American church fueled the fire. They fuel the fire to this day. There is a cost to this combat, and that cost is born in our ability to reach out to people outside our tribe and to have people believe us when we say that we care for them, that we want to see them flourish, and that we love their families—both red and blue.

I’m watching whether the words of the pro-life movement and conservative Christianity mean anything or whether it’s just words.

[Robert]

David French is another moderate conservative I read who in a recent peace, celebrates the end of Roe, but also express a deep disquiet about where the country and the conservative movement.

https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/r ... right-isnt

He seems to be conflating two separate things into one.

[Josh]

What, exactly, is the moral equivalent between:

"You must take a vaccine made with aborted-baby parts that doesn't keep you from getting COVID"

and

"The states should be allowed to pass laws against killing babies."

Drawing a parallel between avoiding unproven, untested vaccines that don't prevent COVID and being opposed to abortion is absurd.

[temporal1]

The public needs to know, voters need to know, the principle drive behind abortion is CORPORATE PROFITS.

I would disagree. I see it as western society's continued desire to have actions without consequences.

It also continues to degrade the sanctity of life.

There are deep moral, or lack of moral issues going on these days that has degraded the foundations of the culture. Read Judges. It happens over and over.

Anyone who thinks the ruling powers or government is your friend and can be trusted does not know history.

Through history ruling bodies stayed in power by the use of force. Now they just use the power of persuasion, but is the same end result. The ruling elites have and hold the power. We plebs are just too easily swayed by glitz and glamour of the word. They tell us what we want to hear and we give them permission to have our power. We want safety more than freedom. We want the safety of no consequences for our actions.

I want to be lazy, the government will pay.

I want to be permiscuous, remove the results.

Humans are ultimately lazy and do not want to accept the consequences of their actions. Individualism will ultimately fail because of that. Most want safety more than freedom. It is the few who want the freedom of choice along with facing the consequences of those choices.

These are all great points, i don’t disagree.
i would add, corporate profits exploit all these short-comings, including human misery, to their self-serving ends. $$$$

A recent thought:
Imagine if the NYT began featuring, encouraging, promoting active+effective prolife groups that are very much a part of real life,
Save the Storks, March for Life, Safe Haven Baby Boxes, Catholic/Christian adoption services, et al.?! - that is, if they used part of their enormous power to normalize life, normalize help to mothers, families?!

The conversations would change in a “NY minute,” so to speak.

i admit surprise that, on this forum, the idea of helping prolife actions is addressed as tho nothing has been going on to date.
LOTS goes on. It’s just not reported in the NYT.

Are we really that codependent on the mainstream for our perceptions?
That’s a disturbing thought.

Josh:
May we see Christ's church continue to grow and to see more young believers like I talked above baptised into the fold.

The brave Supreme Court justices who chose life all hail from the Catholic church, with one Catholic who dissented.
Justice Thomas in particular was deeply affected by his devout grandfather.

I have thought about this a lot in the past few days - of the importance of keeping of the faith and of teaching sound doctrine, particularly in the area of abortion. The Catholic church's faithfulness not to compromise on the issue of abortion has and will save many young lives.

Give credit where credit is due.
i’m not Catholic, but i’ve very much appreciated their workdwide pro life work, and support of traditional family units.
They aren’t alone. But they’ve endured a lot while accomplishing a lot, without glory. Under constant attack.
Not featured in the NYT.

[Szdfan]

David French is another moderate conservative I read who in a recent peace, celebrates the end of Roe, but also express a deep disquiet about where the country and the conservative movement.

https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/r ... right-isnt

He seems to be conflating two separate things into one.

Maybe. I think he sees a conflict between the conservative reaction to Covid and abortion. Covid affected some of the most vulnerable demographics in the US and the reaction by conservatives was that mandated masks, vaccines and social distancing was a violation of personal bodily autonomy. I think he’s disquieted by the sense among conservatives that imposed personal sacrifice is something that other people do.