Ministering to People With Unwanted Pregnancies

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
temporal1

Re: Ministering to People With Unwanted Pregnancies

Post by temporal1 »

ken_s:
.. It fascinates me how people who can easily see how stupid it is for James to leave his car unlocked with the keys in the ignition will cry "victim blaming" as soon as a woman is advised to take preventive measures to avoid attacks or minimize unwanted attention.

Even as an older child/young teen, with NO formal “sex ed,” my parents relayed SHORT, CLEAR messages that were somewhat mysterious, but not confusing: DO NOT go to a man’s hotel room, DO NOT go into any bedroom or bathroom with (a male), DO NOT look in a man’s pockets, those kinds of things. In simple terms, no explanation.

hollywood was known to be an epicenter for sin and exploitation, no decent family would want their children to be part of entertainment, circuses, etc. idolatry of hollywood was unthinkable. not socially acceptable.

When current reports of carnal abuse comes out of hollywood, i think it damages authentic abuse cases.
Much of the victim shaming controversy is worsened by hollywood reports. Those reports get a lot of airtime.

But hollywood isn’t solely responsible. When i was young, a teen myself, victims, even teens, were regularly blamed for abuse.
Not nearly as much now as before. Unfortunately, laws intended to protect minors are being eroded at the same time.

Churches are in position to help with prevention, i pray for churches to help with all manner parenting instruction -
evidently, many parents do not know basics of life to teach their children! Churches can teach not only what to do and say, but scriptural Truths on “why?”

SHORT, CLEAR messages are important for the immediate. Understanding why from the eternal consequences perspective is important for the longer term.
Josh:
I don’t want to get mugged or murdered.
Therefore I avoid places where there are people who want to mug or murder me.
First step.
Last edited by temporal1 on Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:49 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Josh

Re: Ministering to People With Unwanted Pregnancies

Post by Josh »

Ken wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:49 pm Subsidized or free childcare when the child is born
Subsidized or free prenatal and postnatal healthcare
Subsidized or free housing for single mothers
And finally, subsidized or free job training, internship, and employment opportunities for when you have taken care of the other three.

How does a single young mother who probably lacks a HS education pay for childcare, health care, rent, food, clothing, etc. anywhere in the country on what is likely a minimum wage job? Which, by the way, is still $7.25/hour in much of the south.

Also improved access to contraception and better sex ed so that fewer young women get pregnant in the first place.
The U.S. government started providing those things in the 1960s.

The result was that single motherhood skyrocketed.
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AnthonyMartin
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Re: Ministering to People With Unwanted Pregnancies

Post by AnthonyMartin »

ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:43 amWould it be fair to say that a well-rounded program of ministering to people with unwanted pregnancies would also, where applicable, address the behavior that "caused" the unwanted pregnancy? So that in the case of a person who "sleeps around" that behavior ought to be addressed. In the case of a pregnancy resulting from rape, wouldn't part of a complete ministry also include some discussions about whether there are measures that person could take to protect herself from rape moving forward? Which might include some advice such as "you should not get drunk in a bar with people you don't know and trust late at night." Not that there is any excuse whatsoever for a man to rape a drunk woman.

James parks his car by the curb in downtown Detroit, unlocked with the keys in the ignition. When his car gets stolen, it will be my opinion that it is partly his fault that his car got stolen. Not because the thief couldn't help himself. Not because the car being unlocked was any excuse for the thief. But because James was stupid and didn't take common sense measures to help prevent his car from being stolen (the police will tell him the same thing).

It fascinates me how people who can easily see how stupid it is for James to leave his car unlocked with the keys in the ignition will cry "victim blaming" as soon as a woman is advised to take preventive measures to avoid attacks or minimize unwanted attention.
Any ministry worth it’s salt is focused on changing behavior, yes. I wasn’t intending to cry “victim blaming”. It just seems an odd place to start to me.
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Josh

Re: Ministering to People With Unwanted Pregnancies

Post by Josh »

barnhart wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:44 pm I'm disturbed by the concept of shared blame for rape.
I don’t want to get mugged or murdered. Therefore I avoid places where there are people who want to mug or murder me.
But as for ministering to people with unwanted pregnancy, it should be simple, they need all the things you do, stable relationships, predictable well paying jobs, reasonably priced housing ect... Just imagine your daughter or sister in the same situation in a distant country.
People with “unwanted pregnancies” overwhelmingly are responsible for their own predicament. (A few percent aren’t. Let’s focus on the vast majority here.)

They can give their unwanted baby up to an adoptive family where it is very wanted, and then go live a more responsible life. If they want a stable relationship, a good job, good housing - they can pursue those things the same way non pregnant persons or married couples do.
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AnthonyMartin
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Re: Ministering to People With Unwanted Pregnancies

Post by AnthonyMartin »

barnhart wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:19 am Matthew 25
"Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me."

From this passage I learn several values around ministry that God approves. First, presence is important, this also born out the parable of the Samaritan. It's also the first step in moving away from a lifestyle that insulates from poverty and need. Second, simple needs are high on God's list, food and water, hospitality and friendship, clothing and shelter, these are things he cares about. Third, start with these things before moving to other messages. The gospel he cares about starts with these things, ethical and moral teaching and gospel messages are important but certainly not a replacement for these things.
:up:
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Josh

Re: Ministering to People With Unwanted Pregnancies

Post by Josh »

justme wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:32 pm
Soloist wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:19 pm Justme, I'm actually referencing a woman actually engaging in sexual activity and then saying no in mid stride. She has responsibility for her choices. Yes, the man who continues is sinning but the woman is to blame as well.

Either way, this is derailing the subject and I'm stopping doing so.
and i as well don't want to go down this trail too far. after all, most of you are male, and i am female, and i've come to the place where i don't want to discuss too far these subjects.

i agree, she has responsibility for her choices. that is why she had decided this is as far as i'm going. no more, i don't want any more. i'm done, i've said no. she has taken responsibility for as far as she is willing to go.

if the man has no self control at that point in time? does that mean that there is a point in time that a man becomes nothing better than the lion in your analogy who is only working on instinct?
justme,

How exactly do you propose that I convince certain men to stop being murderers, muggers, burglars, and rapists?

It is obvious that one should avoid associating with such men. And also obviously such things are illegal and the law has punishments for them but the police and courts also aren’t very effective.

Women who don’t want to get raped should avoid being around rapists. Simple as that.

(Some would say they should also carry a gun, which is quite effective in stopping would-be rapists - I have a friend who did this exact thing a number of years ago. But that’s a different topic. She also moved out of that bad neighbourhood where that happened as fast as she could.)
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Sliceitup
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Re: Ministering to People With Unwanted Pregnancies

Post by Sliceitup »

I think that reducing the health care costs associated with pregnancy, childbirth, and early childhood would be a big help to mothers who are considering an abortion. Some states have expanded Medicare and something like CHIP to cover pregnancy, but women might need help accessing those programs. And if they do have health insurance they likely have sky high deductibles.

For what it’s worth all this discussion of teaching responsibility or changing behavior seems a bit off track. There’s two issues here, and they can converge, but are not necessarily the same thing.

The first is the importance of sexually moral behavior.
The second is the importance of reducing the number of women who choose abortions.

If you want to reduce the number of women who find themselves in the situation of having an unwanted pregnancy then by all means you are interested in the first issue. However, not all unwanted pregnancies are the result of sexual activities that take place outside of marriage. So, even if you succeed at eliminating any immoral behavior, you will still have unwanted pregnancies.

If you want to reduce the number of women who choose abortions then you will need to look at why women choose that option. Financial reasons and timing are frequently mentioned.

More than one study indicated that 25% or more choose abortion so people won’t know they they had sex. So, maybe this attitude of needing to make sure women know they did something immoral and wrong is part of the problem. How many women chose an abortion because they feared your reaction?
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Ken
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Re: Ministering to People With Unwanted Pregnancies

Post by Ken »

In 2015, a Christian abortion alternative network, Care Net, commissioned an abortion study performed by Lifeway Research, a Christian research organization. Their findings were not what they expected. https://lifewayresearch.com/wp-content/ ... evised.pdf
  • In 2015, 70% of abortions were performed on Christian women, the exact same percentage as Americans who identify as Christians. In other words, Christianity had no effect on abortion rates.
  • 52% of churchgoers who have had an abortion have no one at church who knows they have had a pregnancy terminated
  • 76% of women indicate local churches had no influence on their decision to terminate their pregnancy
  • 30% of women who have had an abortion indicate they have had more than one pregnancy termination or abortion
  • 49% of women who have had an abortion agree that pastors’ teachings on forgiveness don’t seem to apply to terminated pregnancies
Blaming women doesn't work. And actually helping women is a bigger task than most churches are interested in undertaking.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Ken
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Re: Ministering to People With Unwanted Pregnancies

Post by Ken »

Josh wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:41 am
Ken wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:49 pm Subsidized or free childcare when the child is born
Subsidized or free prenatal and postnatal healthcare
Subsidized or free housing for single mothers
And finally, subsidized or free job training, internship, and employment opportunities for when you have taken care of the other three.

How does a single young mother who probably lacks a HS education pay for childcare, health care, rent, food, clothing, etc. anywhere in the country on what is likely a minimum wage job? Which, by the way, is still $7.25/hour in much of the south.

Also improved access to contraception and better sex ed so that fewer young women get pregnant in the first place.
The U.S. government started providing those things in the 1960s.

The result was that single motherhood skyrocketed.
I thought that was what you wanted. And the actual objective of this thread. Fewer abortions automatically means more single motherhood.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
temporal1

Re: Ministering to People With Unwanted Pregnancies

Post by temporal1 »

Ken wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:45 am
Josh wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:41 am
Ken wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:49 pm Subsidized or free childcare when the child is born
Subsidized or free prenatal and postnatal healthcare
Subsidized or free housing for single mothers
And finally, subsidized or free job training, internship, and employment opportunities for when you have taken care of the other three.

How does a single young mother who probably lacks a HS education pay for childcare, health care, rent, food, clothing, etc. anywhere in the country on what is likely a minimum wage job? Which, by the way, is still $7.25/hour in much of the south.

Also improved access to contraception and better sex ed so that fewer young women get pregnant in the first place.
The U.S. government started providing those things in the 1960s.
The result was that single motherhood skyrocketed.
I thought that was what you wanted. Fewer abortions means more single motherhood.
Great example of the soft bigotry of low expectations.
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