Sattler College Turmoil

[mike]

I don't have a problem with Anabaptists or Kingdom Christians starting a new college. Good on Finny Kuruvilla for promoting a good education in a Christian environment.

My reservations for advising someone to go to Sattler would have more to do with other factors. Such as its distant location and its newness and lack of track record academically and in other ways. If I were young and looking to go to college, Sattler would be appealing because of its quasi-Anabaptist environment. However, depending on the field in which I wished to study, I think it would be more appealing to study at Faith Builders and transfer credits to a community college if an accredited degree was desired, or else attend a local community college if necessary for the field of study. 2 or 4 years is a long time to be at a school where one doesn't really know the community or the student body he/she will be a part of.

That's without really considering what ideological differences there might be between myself and FOTW, and how much that ideology permeates the college. I assume it's a big influence. Without knowing more than I do, I would probably fall where Ernie does on all that. I'm flexible enough that I think I could work with folks that I don't agree with in every way. I've done that most of my life.

One of the things that opened my mind up to working with people of various (admittedly other plain Anabaptist) backgrounds was my study at Faith Builders (three summer terms while I was a teacher). I think if the atmosphere around Sattler is a sort of monoculture, where the distinct impression is that there is only one right way to do Christianity, I would have a problem. If it is a place where people of various kingdom Christian backgrounds can work and study together, I think I would enjoy it.

[Soloist]

I don't have a problem with Anabaptists or Kingdom Christians starting a new college. Good on Finny Kuruvilla for promoting a good education in a Christian environment.

My reservations for advising someone to go to Sattler would have more to do with other factors. Such as its distant location and its newness and lack of track record academically and in other ways. If I were young and looking to go to college, Sattler would be appealing because of its quasi-Anabaptist environment. However, depending on the field in which I wished to study, I think it would be more appealing to study at Faith Builders and transfer credits to a community college if an accredited degree was desired, or else attend a local community college if necessary for the field of study. 2 or 4 years is a long time to be at a school where one doesn't really know the community or the student body he/she will be a part of.

That's without really considering what ideological differences there might be between myself and FOTW, and how much that ideology permeates the college. I assume it's a big influence. Without knowing more than I do, I would probably fall where Ernie does on all that. I'm flexible enough that I think I could work with folks that I don't agree with in every way. I've done that most of my life.

One of the things that opened my mind up to working with people of various (admittedly other plain Anabaptist) backgrounds was my study at Faith Builders (three summer terms while I was a teacher). I think if the atmosphere around Sattler is a sort of monoculture, where the distinct impression is that there is only one right way to do Christianity, I would have a problem. If it is a place where people of various kingdom Christian backgrounds can work and study together, I think I would enjoy it.

Ideology and what they teach on several things such as evolution, young earth, the Old Testament miracles, church authority would be primary considerations of mine. Why I would ever send my child to there? If they wanted college I'd much rather clear lines or go to a non-accredited Christian College.

[mike]

I don't have a problem with Anabaptists or Kingdom Christians starting a new college. Good on Finny Kuruvilla for promoting a good education in a Christian environment.

My reservations for advising someone to go to Sattler would have more to do with other factors. Such as its distant location and its newness and lack of track record academically and in other ways. If I were young and looking to go to college, Sattler would be appealing because of its quasi-Anabaptist environment. However, depending on the field in which I wished to study, I think it would be more appealing to study at Faith Builders and transfer credits to a community college if an accredited degree was desired, or else attend a local community college if necessary for the field of study. 2 or 4 years is a long time to be at a school where one doesn't really know the community or the student body he/she will be a part of.

That's without really considering what ideological differences there might be between myself and FOTW, and how much that ideology permeates the college. I assume it's a big influence. Without knowing more than I do, I would probably fall where Ernie does on all that. I'm flexible enough that I think I could work with folks that I don't agree with in every way. I've done that most of my life.

One of the things that opened my mind up to working with people of various (admittedly other plain Anabaptist) backgrounds was my study at Faith Builders (three summer terms while I was a teacher). I think if the atmosphere around Sattler is a sort of monoculture, where the distinct impression is that there is only one right way to do Christianity, I would have a problem. If it is a place where people of various kingdom Christian backgrounds can work and study together, I think I would enjoy it.

Ideology and what they teach on several things such as evolution, young earth, the Old Testament miracles, church authority would be primary considerations of mine. Why I would ever send my child to there? If they wanted college I'd much rather clear lines or go to a non-accredited Christian College.

I am already assuming that by being a kingdom Christian/quasi Anabaptist organization they adhere to such basic beliefs as the Creation, miracles, and so forth.

Some people have said less harmful to one's faith to send your children to a secular school than to a Christian school where they are indoctrinated with a false understanding of Christianity. I can understand that idea.

[Soloist]

I am already assuming that by being a kingdom Christian/quasi Anabaptist organization they adhere to such basic beliefs as the Creation, miracles, and so forth.

Some people have said less harmful to one's faith to send your children to a secular school than to a Christian school where they are indoctrinated with a false understanding of Christianity. I can understand that idea.

I had a conversation with one of the teachers last year that made me very skeptical that they do with specifics in regard to those teachings. That being said, the statements reflecting some of the leadership/teachers is not a reflection of all the faculty/board.

[Josh]

In any event, it is rather absurd to claim that a subject is too complex and the issues are too numerous to be addressed in an internet forum. This is not a broadcast or print medium where either time or space are constricted and editorial compromises must be made. People can post a 1,000 page dissertation here if they wish. It sounds more like they just don't want their dirty laundry discussed in public and want to control the discourse without actually having the courage to come do it in a space where people are able to ask questions and push back.

Jumping ship is a VERY PUBLIC way of expressing one's disapproval or disagreement with the course that an institution is taking. One has to expect such actions to be discussed in public.

An accredited institution must eventually make public executive staffing changes. There is no good reason for Sattler to not issue a press release about this.

[RZehr]

I know that in their mind Sattler is far above Mennonet, and Mennonites, but maybe it would be better if Sattler would either lower themselves to our level and engage here, or ignore what the peons say about them here. Instead of complaining to Ernie and JBG. Instead of imperialistically prospecting for raw resources and leaving.
It’s not as if they aren’t very active on social media already. They are very active. And they do apparently have an account here, and apparently know what is being said. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1189&p=31522#p31522

As much as I’ve become used to FOTW viewing us Mennonites as a bit ignorant or worse, I am fond of M.M. & S.O’. from way back, and only wish them and their family the best. And I believe the fondness is probably both ways.

Having never visited them there, in my mind I view Sattler and FOTW interchangeably.

[mike]

I know that in their mind Sattler is far above Mennonet, and Mennonites, but maybe it would be better if Sattler would either lower themselves to our level and engage here, or ignore what the peons say about them here. Instead of complaining to Ernie and JBG. Instead of imperialistically prospecting for raw resources and leaving.
It’s not as if they aren’t very active on social media already. They are very active. And they do apparently have an account here, and apparently know what is being said. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1189&p=31522#p31522

As much as I’ve become used to FOTW viewing us Mennonites as a bit ignorant or worse, I am fond of M.M. & S.O’. from way back, and only wish them and their family the best. And I believe the fondness is probably both ways.

Having never visited them there, in my mind I view Sattler and FOTW interchangeably.

An organization that wants to manage its public image probably isn't going to officially get involved in a forum where they can't control questions and responses. I'm not sure this discussion matters that much. I could be wrong. I noted that they have a couple of thousand Facebook followers which is quite a few more than Faith Builders which has been around for a number of decades, so obviously this is a school that has done well at gaining a broad audience for how new it is, maybe still mostly conservative Anabaptist and adjacent groups, but probably broader than that.

[Ken]

I've gone through the college search process twice with my two older daughters and am just starting it with the 3rd and final daughter. We didn't ever look at Sattler or any east coast colleges in general. But we looked at and visited a variety of public and private religious schools both in the south when we lived in Texas, and now on the west coast.

Generally speaking it is my experience that most all religious schools do something of a "bait and switch" of some sort or other. Some downplay their religious affiliations despite the fact that their boards and important policies are still very much governed by a specific denomination. Others come across as more ecumenical than they really are. They do this basically for two reasons. First, because college admissions is a competitive business and these days you have to cast a wide net in order to maintain your enrollment objectives. And second, because some see part of their role as evangelism. In other words, they cast a wide net with the hopes that they can reel in and convert some of their recruited students. I've been on a lot of college tours, and college admissions is a LOT of telling people what they want to hear.

It seems to me that Sattler (or some at Sattler) have a fairly narrow idea of what they want Sattler to be. But they aren't likely to fill out their classes if they are too open about that because there simply aren't remotely enough FOTW families with college-age children. So they have to cast a wider net to fill out their classes. And by doing so they downplay their affiliations. Take a look at the Sattler web site, for example. Can you find anything anywhere that mentions affiliation with FOTW? https://www.sattlercollege.org/ I suspect not. I couldn't.

Instead you find things like this which frankly sounds very ecumenical:

Every journey is personal. Sattler doesn’t offer a one-size-fits-all discipleship program. “We call it a journey group for a very specific reason, in that your walk with Christ is a journey,” Johnson says. The discipleship program creates a space for you to grow in the trajectory towards Christ which you have already begun. Every individual’s journey is different. You can’t quantify a person’s character, says Johnson, and “you can’t put a number on discipleship.” Sattler College cannot guarantee your spiritual victory, your relationship with Christ, or your relationship with your fellow students. Those victories are within your power and no one else’s. However, we commit to creating an atmosphere where Jesus is King, to cultivating godly character in your life, and to supporting you with love and Biblical guidance every step of the way.

And this...

Sattler College provides an education that is grounded in the historic Christian faith. This encompasses the traditional beliefs of the church with respect to doctrine and practice. While the College has no specific denominational affiliation, the beliefs upon which it is established correspond most closely with the persecuted, suffering churches of history, such as the ante-Nicene church, the Waldensians, the Wycliffites, and the Anabaptists.

[mike]

Sattler College provides an education that is grounded in the historic Christian faith. This encompasses the traditional beliefs of the church with respect to doctrine and practice. While the College has no specific denominational affiliation, the beliefs upon which it is established correspond most closely with the persecuted, suffering churches of history, such as the ante-Nicene church, the Waldensians, the Wycliffites, and the Anabaptists.

Well, the Anabaptists clearly get a mention there. And it's not that far down on their About Us page. So it's not like somebody who goes to Sattler will be surprised to see students or staff that are conservative in dress for instance.

Faith Builders' About Us page includes the following statement of core values:

Core Values
Faith Builders Educational Programs serves the conservative Anabaptist community by discipling people toward humble, joyful, Christ-centered participation in the Kingdom of God. The FB Board envisions FBEP helping to develop people who…

Love God supremely
Are prepared for a lifetime of Spirit-filled service
Are humble, competent, and faithful church members
Provide resources for ministries of the church
Understand the times and are prepared to engage effectively
Faith Builders Educational Programs serves the church by training students to effectively minister Christ for a lifetime. To this end, we will attempt to understand students in the context of their homes and churches. That is, we are committed to learn to know students, to respond to their questions and individual needs, and to develop their abilities. Furthermore, we will be intentional about learning to know their parents and churches and will work to enable students to be loyal and effective in the church communities that have sent them.

So FB is clearly intending to serve the conservative Anabaptist community. Sattler is pretty clearly aimed at a somewhat more broad audience, although it's obvious they have made a lot of effort to recruit students and staff from the conservative Anabaptists.

[Josh]

"such as the ante-Nicene church, the Waldensians, the Wycliffites, and the Anabaptists."

This is a rather odd statement, since those other groups don't exist anymore and indeed haven't for centuries, other than a modern mainline Protestant denomination that Sattler would not be aligned with at all (the Waldensian church in Europe).

It seems like a sneaky way to try to act like they are part of a broader coalition than Anabaptists, when they really aren't - their student body is composed almost entirely of ethnic Anabaptists.