Ken wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:04 pm
How big is FOTW? According to their web site I only count 5 congregations in the US: https://www.followers-of-the-way.org/
That can't possibly be a large enough population to keep a college going on their own. Can it?
FOTW has about 8 locations with 5 in Boston.
If you have money from Eventide, all you need is some "yes" men and women for your Board.
Ernie wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:16 pm
Finny told me that he tells the young people at FOTW, "You should go to the most Biblical church you can find. If that is not us, you should go elsewhere." So while they maybe didn't tell others that they should leave their churches and join FOTW, this flavor was in the air that was breathed at FOTW and with some at Sattler.
Yes...except that doesn't explain why they would be threatened by Dean starting a church. If they are confident in their lens, why not go the Gamaliel route?
Finny's feels like the Anabaptist "denomination" is territorial and likes to throw its weight around. For them to want to plant a church in Boston feels territorial to him. He wants the Boston Kingdom Christians to have their own flavor.
Ernie wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:16 pm
Finny told me that he tells the young people at FOTW, "You should go to the most Biblical church you can find. If that is not us, you should go elsewhere." So while they maybe didn't tell others that they should leave their churches and join FOTW, this flavor was in the air that was breathed at FOTW and with some at Sattler.
Yes...except that doesn't explain why they would be threatened by Dean starting a church. If they are confident in their lens, why not go the Gamaliel route?
Finny's feels like the Anabaptist "denomination" is territorial and likes to throw its weight around. For them to want to plant a church in Boston feels territorial to him. He wants the Boston Kingdom Christians to have their own flavor.
So Boston Terriers should be Sattlers mascot. Theses dogs wear black suits and black hats, over a white shirt. But they aren’t Mennonites. They prefer laid back suits.
Ernie wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:16 pm
Finny told me that he tells the young people at FOTW, "You should go to the most Biblical church you can find. If that is not us, you should go elsewhere." So while they maybe didn't tell others that they should leave their churches and join FOTW, this flavor was in the air that was breathed at FOTW and with some at Sattler.
Yes...except that doesn't explain why they would be threatened by Dean starting a church. If they are confident in their lens, why not go the Gamaliel route?
Finny's feels like the Anabaptist "denomination" is territorial and likes to throw its weight around. For them to want to plant a church in Boston feels territorial to him. He wants the Boston Kingdom Christians to have their own flavor.
Finney may be right in some ways - in any case, there is a strong anti-denomination instinct within FOTW (and the movement they emerged from) that certainly plays in here - ironically, it seems just as "territorial" to oppose an Anabaptist church plant.
In my understanding, Sattler's articulated vision all along was not "pan-Anabaptist" but "pan-Kingdom-Christian" which is the higher common denominator between FOTW and a subset of the CA world (as well as a number of Charity-type groups). That's the niche that the school has occupied thus far - I hope they can find, a way to maintain it.
Ernie wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:16 pm
Finny told me that he tells the young people at FOTW, "You should go to the most Biblical church you can find. If that is not us, you should go elsewhere." So while they maybe didn't tell others that they should leave their churches and join FOTW, this flavor was in the air that was breathed at FOTW and with some at Sattler.
Yes...except that doesn't explain why they would be threatened by Dean starting a church. If they are confident in their lens, why not go the Gamaliel route?
Finny's feels like the Anabaptist "denomination" is territorial and likes to throw its weight around. For them to want to plant a church in Boston feels territorial to him. He wants the Boston Kingdom Christians to have their own flavor.
This would make sense if the CA denomination weren't specifically recruited to come to Boston, to the tune of a super majority of the students. Also, Boston is a pretty big place and there are plenty of other denominations present, surely one more, the "Anabaptist" one, need not be threatening. Is FOTW so unsure of their expressions that they worry they will be subsumed? I'd love to see an FOTW church in Ephrata PA =).
Yes...except that doesn't explain why they would be threatened by Dean starting a church. If they are confident in their lens, why not go the Gamaliel route?
Finny's feels like the Anabaptist "denomination" is territorial and likes to throw its weight around. For them to want to plant a church in Boston feels territorial to him. He wants the Boston Kingdom Christians to have their own flavor.
Finney may be right in some ways - in any case there is a strong anti-denominational instinct within FOTW (and the movement they emerged from) - but Ironically, it seems just as "territorial" to oppose an Anabaptist church plant.
In my understanding, Sattler's articulated vision all along was not "pan-Anabaptist" but "pan-Kingdom-Christian" which is the common denominator between FOTW and a subset of the CA world. That's the niche that I was enthused about - I hope they can find a way to maintain it.
That may be but they specifically named the Anabaptists (along with other groups, waldensians etc) as their angle. Further, they are named after Michael Sattler after all, and the specific college room names are Grebel, Manz, and Blaurock etc. And "pan Kingdom Christian" is a really amorphous term methinks, as perhaps is Anabaptism, to be fair.
Also, the real issue, to me isn't really a denominational question. If one is clearly going to identify as a denominational school then that is fine and has integrity. Everyone knows LBC is a reformed theology school. Everyone knows Notre Dame is Catholic and BJU is IFB. And EMS is a Mennonite school =). No problem.
However a "bait and switch" seemed to be occurring to some, where certain folks couldn't work in certain positions for the college unless they were FOTW meanwhile the college seemed to be taking a "pan Kingdom Christian" approach formally in their founding documents. Other folks thought they were assured that "their perspective on Christianity" was accepted (if not agreed with), later to find out it wasn't ok, but the belief was that FOTW was so compelling in their positions that they would "convert" them. When that didn't happen, things went "south."
To put it plainly, it doesn't take an organizational theoretician to know that if a President, a Provost (who was really the only one with actual educational institutional leadership experience), and an entire board, minus the funder/founder, resign...something is sorely amiss institutionally with the power structures and the institutional vision is fractured.
Ernie wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:18 pm
Some Anabaptists met with Dean and Finny this winter to suggest that if 95% of the students are coming from Anabaptist churches, it would seem reasonable that they should have board representation.
Yes it would be reasonable. In fact it seems the college itself would seek it out.
I know firsthand that Dean has been actively working on this for a while now, at least at the faculty level - I believe with the blessing of Finny. He also was openly wishing for an Anabaptist church plant to provide another compatible church option for the campus community. Their board development, however, has been a bit of a mystery to me.
Sorry to hear these things may not be occurring, and that the situation may be destabilizing for the college. I like Sattler's vision, and the quality of what they are educationally and spiritually seeking to do - I hope they can sort this all out quickly. I too have trouble imagining them moving ahead without the inclusion of conservative Anabaptists.
Finny was never keen on the idea, but allowed Taylor to pursue this 6 months ago. It seems like Finny has become more uncomfortable with the idea since then. He has not been comfortable with the "progressive" Anabaptist influence that has come to Boston. (many moderate-conservative and intermediate-conservative Anbaptists are not blessing their young people to study at Sattler.)
Recently Finny began telling prospective employees that the President and Dean of Students need to be members of FOTW. Taylor and the Board were not in agreement with this and prospective employees were being told two different things. It was at this point that Taylor withdrew his membership from FOTW, and then resigned at Sattler, which seems to have prompted the Board to respond in like manner. (As I understand it.)
joshuabgood wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:22 pm
Is FOTW so unsure of their expressions that they worry they will be subsumed? I'd love to see an FOTW church in Ephrata PA =).
Not all, but some. The other founder of FOTW welcomed the Anabaptists to plant a church in Boston by saying, "Come on up. We need some good competition."
Yes it would be reasonable. In fact it seems the college itself would seek it out.
I know firsthand that Dean has been actively working on this for a while now, at least at the faculty level - I believe with the blessing of Finny. He also was openly wishing for an Anabaptist church plant to provide another compatible church option for the campus community. Their board development, however, has been a bit of a mystery to me.
Sorry to hear these things may not be occurring, and that the situation may be destabilizing for the college. I like Sattler's vision, and the quality of what they are educationally and spiritually seeking to do - I hope they can sort this all out quickly. I too have trouble imagining them moving ahead without the inclusion of conservative Anabaptists.
Finny was never keen on the idea, but allowed Taylor to pursue this 6 months ago. It seems like Finny has become more uncomfortable with the idea since then. He has not been comfortable with the "progressive" Anabaptist influence that has come to Boston. (many moderate-conservative and intermediate-conservative Anbaptists are not blessing their young people to study at Sattler.)
Recently Finny began telling prospective employees that the President and Dean of Students need to be members of FOTW. Taylor and the Board were not in agreement with this and prospective employees were being told two different things. It was at this point that Taylor withdrew his membership from FOTW, and then resigned at Sattler, which seems to have prompted the Board to respond in like manner. (As I understand it.)
Saying Finny was "uncomfortable" is maybe an understatement. The board worded it as a "strenuously opposed."