Transitional Churches

[ken_sylvania]

In the Kingdom of God the way up is down. The way to rule is through suffering service. It has nothing to do with making people behave. God himself as a perfect father, having a son without a sin nature, in a perfect environment, lost that son to rebellion.

Are you saying you believe Apostle Paul was wrong regarding this concept?

No.

I had thought you were suggesting there is no connection between good parenting and good church leadership. Are you rather saying that servant leadership is the way to succeed in either position?

[Sudsy]

I have been active in 'transitional' churches in my life and some were good transitions, others, not so good. The one that stands out to me the most was when I left the Pentecostal church and began fellowship in a church called 'Bible Baptist'. From an Armenian preached doctrine to a Calvinist preached doctrine. At first, I just listened to better understand this tight, closed, evangelical Calvinist church. Then more Christians began to show up from various church backgrounds, especially Mennonite Brethren, First Baptist and unchurched. Then a dynamic transition occurred when God lead a former MB who was very evangelistic focused to minister to the pastor of this church and he became 'on fire' to win the lost.

Well that was quite a transition. We discovered that most of us that came out of our home churches had a similar calling to evangelize beyond what our home church was doing. Walls of doctrine differences were set aside as we worked hand in hand to reach the lost. The church began to grow rapidly. The church was renamed to 'The New Testament Church In The Twentieth Century'. And of course some other churches thought we were far from that but we didn't get side-tracked from our main mission.

As I think I have told many times, this period for a few years was a bit of 'heaven on earth' for many of us. All kinds of challenges with new converts coming to Christ weekly and helping them get started in their Christian faith. Our gatherings were sooo joyful and the anticipation of what God was doing and would do next was extremely high. Home Bible studies sprung up all around our area, water baptisms occurring frequently, prayer meetings, door-to-door evangelism, etc, etc.

But at a point in time, Satan got his foot in the door, so to speak, and pride was a key component to everything settling down to a more stagnant church. However, during the high period some had moved away and took their enthusiasm with them to influence other congregations. Some went off to Bible colleges, others to mission works in bigger cities.

For years many of us would get together and share those great times and share what God was now doing in there lives where they currently lived.

During this mountain top period some would come visit us and tried to go back and get the saints fired up again in their home churches. But few had success as they had left their first love for Christ and were in a state of little concern for the lost. I think Jesus would have given them the same message as that given to the church in Laodicea that they needed to return to their first love. I think He would give that same message today to many of our churches.

Anyway, had to share again one of my experiences of a churches transition. I could also share how other transitions I have attended went the other way. Often these occurred either in going more 'worldly' or in going more 'legalistic' which they understood as more 'holy', set apart. Well, nuf said.

[Ernie]

So as we have seen so far in this thread, some churches are stagnant, some are transitioning toward something better, and some are transitioning toward something worse. And then there are churches that are a short term stopping place for people passing through. Sometimes people will stop for a few years. Often people will come to the church and stay, but then there children move on to other churches a generation later.

Something that confused me as a young man in my mid twenties was the discovery that people could seemingly be transitioning toward something better and something worse at the same time. e.g. A lady I knew found small group discipleship and personal time with God to be very helpful for her in her journey to leave obesity behind. At the same time she was giving up all sorts of good Biblical values in other areas.
I've concluded that Satan doesn't really care what people gain or lose spiritually as long as he gets them or their posterity in the end.
I think the same conclusion could apply to churches/groups of believers.

[barnhart]

It might be valuable to think about what "stability" (as opposed to "transitional") looks like. My great grandmother died when I was in my early 30's, a godly woman of faith with a powerful witness, but also one who held ideas/doctrine that likely everyone on this forum would find heretical and offensive. These she gathered from the believers who formed her in her youth. I am glad she did not live to see the times we are in now, I shutter to think how she might have responded. For me being faithful and building stable fellowships involves moving beyond the lies she received from the spirit of the age in her youth.

[joshuabgood]

Transitions feel inevitable to me on the one hand. However in changing times and contexts, if one has the Word of God, that is Jesus, as true north, while the angle change, as we head north, we can remain heading north. As for the value of preserving tradition, or ethnic practices, I see it mostly as a preference or wisdom question. Cultures and ethnicities have varying expressions...around a host of mostly neutral things.

On the bright side, when children hoe their own way. It shows they aren't merely doing what was always done. This isn't all bad. Many thinking people are no longer exactly where their parents were. This is normal and not something to be feared methinks.

[Sudsy]

Another way to look at transitioning is does whatever one is transitioning to, within the Christian faith, cause one to reflect more of the characteristics of the fruit of the Spirit and less characteristics of the acts of the flesh.

If one has an accountability partner that is also keen on spiritual growth, checking in with them on this may be of benefit for an objective view. Perhaps the Holy Spirit will use them to relay something that we have closed our mind to. My wife and I talk daily about spiritual things and often go on car rides where we consider what we believe that we are being led by the Spirit to understand. Quite often we discuss some of the views presented here on this forum. And, believe it or not, some of you we really believe are Christians.

[ohio jones]

My wife and I talk daily about spiritual things and often go on car rides where we consider what we believe that we are being led by the Spirit to understand.

I've been waiting patiently for an opportunity to make a pun about a lead foot, and when the rubber finally meets the road, for once you have to use the correct heterograph.

[Sudsy]

My wife and I talk daily about spiritual things and often go on car rides where we consider what we believe that we are being led by the Spirit to understand.

I've been waiting patiently for an opportunity to make a pun about a lead foot, and when the rubber finally meets the road, for once you have to use the correct heterograph.

Sorry, I guess I'm too old to get what you are saying. Has this something to do with my mis-spelling of lead ?

[ohio jones]

My wife and I talk daily about spiritual things and often go on car rides where we consider what we believe that we are being led by the Spirit to understand.

I've been waiting patiently for an opportunity to make a pun about a lead foot, and when the rubber finally meets the road, for once you have to use the correct heterograph.

Sorry, I guess I'm too old to get what you are saying. Has this something to do with my mis-spelling of lead ?

Yes it does. In this case, "led" is the right word for the context, as it usually is when speaking of being led by the Spirit. I'm not really disappointed that you didn't use "lead" this time. Maybe your car uses "unleaded" gas anyway.

But I'm glad you are able to have those discussions with your wife. One of my aunts married a widower, and at one point he mentioned how much he valued her interest in talking about spiritual things, since his first wife preferred other subjects. Taking time for this is important, but do be careful to drive safely!

[Sudsy]

I've been waiting patiently for an opportunity to make a pun about a lead foot, and when the rubber finally meets the road, for once you have to use the correct heterograph.

Sorry, I guess I'm too old to get what you are saying. Has this something to do with my mis-spelling of lead ?

Yes it does. In this case, "led" is the right word for the context, as it usually is when speaking of being led by the Spirit. I'm not really disappointed that you didn't use "lead" this time. Maybe your car uses "unleaded" gas anyway.

But I'm glad you are able to have those discussions with your wife. One of my aunts married a widower, and at one point he mentioned how much he valued her interest in talking about spiritual things, since his first wife preferred other subjects. Taking time for this is important, but do be careful to drive safely!

Thanks for leading me correctly. I feel I have been well led. I remember in grade school when I wrote my English grammar examine and used 'then' and 'than' incorrectly. Thankfully, the teacher didn't deduct any points for that and it was one of a few examines that I was given a perfect score. However my grammar has been going down hill ever since with dangling participles and run on sentences, etc, etc. Sometimes my tongue gets in front of my eye teeth and I can't see what I'm writing.