Southern Baptists lose 1.1 million members in the past 3 years

[Josh]

God is not restricted by what He guided Paul to write to those believers in that time and place. I believe there were specific reasons why God had Paul write what he wrote regarding women in that time and place and keeping silent. I believe our guide, as was Paul's is the Holy Spirit. If the Holy Spirit choses to further God's Kingdom today by using women, our applications of scriptures will not stop Him. It is too obvious to me that God is using women today in pastor and teaching roles and if some chose to keep women silent, that is their choice.

Personally, I have been blessed and taught spiritual truths by women and so glad that God is using women to further His Kingdom today. I believe we should be thankful that women in our culture have been given the same opportunities as men to study the scriptures and are being used to bring many into Kingdom Life.

That is one area I think Pentecostalism, the Salvation Army and others got right. God will use those who are willing to be used of Him as He desires regardless of their sex.

Then why did the Holy Spirit inspire Paul to write down precisely the opposite?

[Sudsy]

God is not restricted by what He guided Paul to write to those believers in that time and place. I believe there were specific reasons why God had Paul write what he wrote regarding women in that time and place and keeping silent. I believe our guide, as was Paul's is the Holy Spirit. If the Holy Spirit choses to further God's Kingdom today by using women, our applications of scriptures will not stop Him. It is too obvious to me that God is using women today in pastor and teaching roles and if some chose to keep women silent, that is their choice.

Personally, I have been blessed and taught spiritual truths by women and so glad that God is using women to further His Kingdom today. I believe we should be thankful that women in our culture have been given the same opportunities as men to study the scriptures and are being used to bring many into Kingdom Life.

That is one area I think Pentecostalism, the Salvation Army and others got right. God will use those who are willing to be used of Him as He desires regardless of their sex.

Then why did the Holy Spirit inspire Paul to write down precisely the opposite?

I believe Paul gave instructions that was best to further the Kingdom at that time. Similar to what Jesus did regarding slavery. He did not go against the norm in that culture but rather told Christians how to treat their slaves and how slaves were to treat their masters. Paul did not want certain areas disrupting the services and mission of the church at that time. So, the instruction to the women was to keep silent and ask their husbands at home. It was not a time in that culture and era yet for women to teach authoritatively.

Women today have access to everything a man does to grow spiritually. Many have been used by God to take on leading roles and brought many into the Kingdom. I think some who do not acknowledge how God is using women today are ignoring what is actually occurring. Instead they chose to believe women and men are not used by God in similar ways.

I have personally experienced the value of women not staying silent in churches. God is using them in a marvelous way and yes, some go astray, as do men. I am quite convinced that God uses willing vessels regardless of their sex to further His Kingdom. My whole family, including cousins, aunts and uncles came to know the Lord and were taught by a lady pastor. To think that God was not at work in this because of what Paul said to a church at that time and place is not seeing the obvious, imo. I am obviously an egalitarian. If God calls a woman into any kind of ministry, who am I to say He is wrong.

[ohio jones]

It was not a time in that culture and era yet for women to teach authoritatively.

As I'm sure you are aware, exactly the same logic is being used to support lesbian pastors. How can you say here that this is a sin that would cause you to disfellowship MCUSA, when they feel "lead" by the Holy Spirit to allow it? If God calls a lesbian into any kind of ministry, who are you to say He is wrong?

[Ken]

God is not restricted by what He guided Paul to write to those believers in that time and place. I believe there were specific reasons why God had Paul write what he wrote regarding women in that time and place and keeping silent. I believe our guide, as was Paul's is the Holy Spirit. If the Holy Spirit choses to further God's Kingdom today by using women, our applications of scriptures will not stop Him. It is too obvious to me that God is using women today in pastor and teaching roles and if some chose to keep women silent, that is their choice.

Personally, I have been blessed and taught spiritual truths by women and so glad that God is using women to further His Kingdom today. I believe we should be thankful that women in our culture have been given the same opportunities as men to study the scriptures and are being used to bring many into Kingdom Life.

That is one area I think Pentecostalism, the Salvation Army and others got right. God will use those who are willing to be used of Him as He desires regardless of their sex.

Then why did the Holy Spirit inspire Paul to write down precisely the opposite?

I believe Paul gave instructions that was best to further the Kingdom at that time. Similar to what Jesus did regarding slavery. He did not go against the norm in that culture but rather told Christians how to treat their slaves and how slaves were to treat their masters. Paul did not want certain areas disrupting the services and mission of the church at that time. So, the instruction to the women was to keep silent and ask their husbands at home. It was not a time in that culture and era yet for women to teach authoritatively.

Women today have access to everything a man does to grow spiritually. Many have been used by God to take on leading roles and brought many into the Kingdom. I think some who do not acknowledge how God is using women today are ignoring what is actually occurring. Instead they chose to believe women and men are not used by God in similar ways.

I have personally experienced the value of women not staying silent in churches. God is using them in a marvelous way and yes, some go astray, as do men. I am quite convinced that God uses willing vessels regardless of their sex to further His Kingdom. My whole family, including cousins, aunts and uncles came to know the Lord and were taught by a lady pastor. To think that God was not at work in this because of what Paul said to a church at that time and place is not seeing the obvious, imo. I am obviously an egalitarian. If God calls a woman into any kind of ministry, who am I to say He is wrong.

Paul was writing letters of advice and instruction to specific churches. That was his audience. He was not writing a volume of holy texts directed to all Christians for all time. Subsequent generations came to recognize the wisdom and inspiration in his words and have since canonized them into the collection of writings known as the New Testament. But I don’t think he knew that he was actually writing what would become the New Testament centuries later at the Council of Nicea when he wrote specific letters to specific churches.

With any writing in any part of the Bible I think it is always useful to consider the context in which it was written and the audience for whom it was intended.

[Ken]

It was not a time in that culture and era yet for women to teach authoritatively.

As I'm sure you are aware, exactly the same logic is being used to support lesbian pastors. How can you say here that this is a sin that would cause you to disfellowship MCUSA, when they feel "lead" by the Holy Spirit to allow it? If God calls a lesbian into any kind of ministry, who are you to say He is wrong?

I thought the current message was that there is nothing wrong with being gay. The only sin is acting on it.

So what is wrong with gay or lesbian pastors? And what should gay people be excluded from? Just leadership? Leadership and membership? Or are they to be completely shunned and cast out in all circumstances?

Does being gay make people less capable of being “lead” by the Holy Spirit?

[ohio jones]

I thought the current message was that there is nothing wrong with being gay. The only sin is acting on it.

So what is wrong with gay or lesbian pastors?

My understanding is that the gay and lesbian pastors in MCUSA are "acting on it."

[temporal1]

My understanding is that the gay and lesbian pastors in MCUSA are "acting on it."

Those that aren’t do not get airtime. Neither are they valued for their choices.
Their beliefs are not considered helpful to “the cause.” Jesus is ok, meh, as long as He conforms to the world.

As I'm sure you are aware, exactly the same logic is being used to support lesbian pastors. How can you say here that this is a sin that would cause you to disfellowship MCUSA, when they feel "lead" by the Holy Spirit to allow it? If God calls a lesbian into any kind of ministry, who are you to say He is wrong?

The world does not recognize the difference between active unrepentant carnal sin (not even in pastoral leadership!)
versus those who have repented and live in faith. How often are WIM featured with their SS partners alongside in open celebration?

The very idea of any description celibacy has become ludicrous. Even for young children/teens.
They are formally taught mechanics, and encouraged to experiment with their inborn animal instincts. And lie to their parents.

Thus, all the misery that results. 100% predictable and preventable. crickets.

Not of the Holy Spirit.

[Josh]

It was not a time in that culture and era yet for women to teach authoritatively.

As I'm sure you are aware, exactly the same logic is being used to support lesbian pastors. How can you say here that this is a sin that would cause you to disfellowship MCUSA, when they feel "lead" by the Holy Spirit to allow it? If God calls a lesbian into any kind of ministry, who are you to say He is wrong?

I thought the current message was that there is nothing wrong with being gay. The only sin is acting on it.

So what is wrong with gay or lesbian pastors? And what should gay people be excluded from? Just leadership? Leadership and membership? Or are they to be completely shunned and cast out in all circumstances?

Does being gay make people less capable of being “lead” by the Holy Spirit?

Specifically, some of us feel that it is a sin to engage in carnal sodomy. If someone doesn’t do this they aren’t really “gay” or “lesbian”.

[Ken]

As I'm sure you are aware, exactly the same logic is being used to support lesbian pastors. How can you say here that this is a sin that would cause you to disfellowship MCUSA, when they feel "lead" by the Holy Spirit to allow it? If God calls a lesbian into any kind of ministry, who are you to say He is wrong?

I thought the current message was that there is nothing wrong with being gay. The only sin is acting on it.

So what is wrong with gay or lesbian pastors? And what should gay people be excluded from? Just leadership? Leadership and membership? Or are they to be completely shunned and cast out in all circumstances?

Does being gay make people less capable of being “lead” by the Holy Spirit?

Specifically, some of us feel that it is a sin to engage in carnal sodomy. If someone doesn’t do this they aren’t really “gay” or “lesbian”.

How do you figure this? Are you not straight if you are not sexually active but wait until marriage? And you only become straight once you become sexually active?

[Josh]

I don’t feel people need to be divided into groups of “gay” or “straight”. If someone engages in fornication then they are a fornicator. There is zero evidence people are “born” with an orientation and plenty that they become that way due to grooming or early childhood abuse. I don’t feel I should slap a label on people who are victims of childhood grooming.