Pelerin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:05 pm
You can reject as much of modernity as you want. How do you keep your kids on board with that vision?
The groups I mentioned have great results in this area.
A few things I think about, based on observation, and church social teaching
Very strict limitations on technology.
A lifestyle that encourages hard work and working in community specifically.
No birth control
Young marriages (that obviously produce children early on)
Boys working with their fathers fairly early (at latest 8th grade, maybe earlier)
Limiting travel options, personally I think flying is too much novelty for our brains to handle
A culture of non-accumulation
To go with the above, a culture where children aspire to their parents level of achievement, or maybe slightly less
I think teaching on the unsustainable state of our current existence is very important too. The current status quo cannot continue, so investing in it, and becoming dependent on it is foolish.
Pelerin wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 8:05 pm
I guess my question is what does the church do to engage the young people that avoids a generation gap?
The reality of a generational gap is a product of modernity, so the less you embrace modernity, the less you have to worry about generational gaps.
The most recent extreme end of this would be the medieval era, when the only aspiration children would have held was to achieve their parents level of success. This created a lot of generational stability, it also created ecological, and economic stability.
What necessarily follows from this philosophical observation is that the church is just as vulnerable to the exponential function as any other institution.
To have multiple generations aspiring to be "greater" than their parents creates economic, ecological, and social overshoot. Which is exactly what we currently have, in the broader culture, but also in various cultures of the "transitional" churches.
If we look at the VERY regressive (non-amish) plain groups, like Delano TN, Scottsville Ky, Belize etc, they have no generational gap, and their youth retention rate is close to 100%.
You can reject as much of modernity as you want. How do you keep your kids on board with that vision?
Perhaps one could ask the Amish this question, since they’re better at keeping their kids on board with this vision than mainstream evangelicals, liberal mainline Protestants, or (not ultra) conservative Mennonites, who all fully embrace technology.
barnhart wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:05 pm
Can we assume a church that cannot evangelize it's own children likely isn't prepared to evangelize anyone else.
I wouldn't go too far down that path. Following Jesus isn't the same as socialization or mere preservation of ethnic enclaves.
barnhart wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:05 pm
Can we assume a church that cannot evangelize it's own children likely isn't prepared to evangelize anyone else.
I wouldn't go too far down that path. Following Jesus isn't the same as socialization or mere preservation of ethnic enclaves.
If someone can’t rule over his own household, how will he rule over the church of God?
barnhart wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:05 pm
Can we assume a church that cannot evangelize it's own children likely isn't prepared to evangelize anyone else.
I wouldn't go too far down that path. Following Jesus isn't the same as socialization or mere preservation of ethnic enclaves.
Yes, there is a big difference between making children feel guilt and shame if they don't take on the religious culture of their parents, vs. raising children who want to embrace the faith tradition of their parents. Any retention rate based on the former is not really evangelization.
At my father's funeral about five years ago, a cousin came up to me and invited me to "come back to the church of your father". I was in no frame of mind to respond to him then, so I just let it go.
Several responses have come to my mind since then that I could give him if he extends the same invitation...
"I feel like I am part of the church of my father. Could you describe or define the church that you are talking about?"
or
"Thank you. And I would like to invite you to come back to the church of your forefathers." (rather than the fundamentalized one he is now part of)
barnhart wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:05 pm
Can we assume a church that cannot evangelize it's own children likely isn't prepared to evangelize anyone else.
I wouldn't go too far down that path. Following Jesus isn't the same as socialization or mere preservation of ethnic enclaves.
If someone can’t rule over his own household, how will he rule over the church of God?
In the Kingdom of God the way up is down. The way to rule is through suffering service. It has nothing to do with making people behave. God himself as a perfect father, having a son without a sin nature, in a perfect environment, lost that son to rebellion.
I wouldn't go too far down that path. Following Jesus isn't the same as socialization or mere preservation of ethnic enclaves.
If someone can’t rule over his own household, how will he rule over the church of God?
In the Kingdom of God the way up is down. The way to rule is through suffering service. It has nothing to do with making people behave. God himself as a perfect father, having a son without a sin nature, in a perfect environment, lost that son to rebellion.
Are you saying you believe Apostle Paul was wrong regarding this concept?
If someone can’t rule over his own household, how will he rule over the church of God?
In the Kingdom of God the way up is down. The way to rule is through suffering service. It has nothing to do with making people behave. God himself as a perfect father, having a son without a sin nature, in a perfect environment, lost that son to rebellion.
Are you saying you believe Apostle Paul was wrong regarding this concept?