What they wore

[steve-in-kville]

I could smack a male coworker on the rear end with a folded magazine and that could be interpreted as assault (provided he didn't like it )

Would you ever think of doing this to a female? this is part of the issue with men. There are underlying assumptions that its okay to sexually harass a male because, it was just a joke he just needs to relax. While I never made an issue of someone coming up behind me and getting against me, it was sexual harassment that was laughed off. The bar (not that we should go there) has multiple situations of women groping men and laughing if they protest.
Go ahead and call the cops, they politely listen and snicker.
Try the reverse and see what happens.

You have a very valid point. There shouldn't be a double standard. To that end, I've been in awkward situations where I've been assaulted by a female coworker, and the cops would have snickered at that, too.

[Szdfan]

I could smack a male coworker on the rear end with a folded magazine and that could be interpreted as assault (provided he didn't like it )

Would you ever think of doing this to a female? this is part of the issue with men. There are underlying assumptions that its okay to sexually harass a male because, it was just a joke he just needs to relax. While I never made an issue of someone coming up behind me and getting against me, it was sexual harassment that was laughed off. The bar (not that we should go there) has multiple situations of women groping men and laughing if they protest.
Go ahead and call the cops, they politely listen and snicker.
Try the reverse and see what happens.

You have a very valid point. There shouldn't be a double standard. To that end, I've been in awkward situations where I've been assaulted by a female coworker, and the cops would have snickered at that, too.

It's not a contest. Overall, how we deal with sexual abuse is extremely dysfunctional.

[Ken]

I could smack a male coworker on the rear end with a folded magazine and that could be interpreted as assault (provided he didn't like it )

Would you ever think of doing this to a female? this is part of the issue with men. There are underlying assumptions that its okay to sexually harass a male because, it was just a joke he just needs to relax. While I never made an issue of someone coming up behind me and getting against me, it was sexual harassment that was laughed off. The bar (not that we should go there) has multiple situations of women groping men and laughing if they protest.
Go ahead and call the cops, they politely listen and snicker.
Try the reverse and see what happens.

You have a very valid point. There shouldn't be a double standard. To that end, I've been in awkward situations where I've been assaulted by a female coworker, and the cops would have snickered at that, too.

You guys work in some very bizarre workplaces that sound more like middle school locker rooms. In 40 years of working in dozens of different blue collar and white collar jobs, no one ever did any of this groping or hitting people with newspapers or whatever. Behaving in a civilized manner and treating people with respect isn’t really that hard.

I have also had female co-workers, especially in male-dominated workplaces like fishing boats that have had to put up with a huge amount of garage and harassment. Also ethnic minority co-workers who have faced harassment. Mostly it is verbal or manipulative not actual physical harassment. Like being given worse duties, lower pay, or not being promoted. Which is more in the category of discrimination than sexual assault. It is getting better but we still aren’t there.

[steve-in-kville]

You guys work in some very bizarre workplaces that sound more like middle school locker rooms.

It does feel like middle school some days in here

[Soloist]

You guys work in some very bizarre workplaces that sound more like middle school locker rooms. In 40 years of working in dozens of different blue collar and white collar jobs, no one ever did any of this groping or hitting people with newspapers or whatever. Behaving in a civilized manner and treating people with respect isn’t really that hard.

I have also had female co-workers, especially in male-dominated workplaces like fishing boats that have had to put up with a huge amount of garage and harassment. Also ethnic minority co-workers who have faced harassment. Mostly it is verbal or manipulative not actual physical harassment. Like being given worse duties, lower pay, or not being promoted. Which is more in the category of discrimination than sexual assault. It is getting better but we still aren’t there.

In the military, you don't chose your work place.

[Josh]

it is obvious to me that josh is not a safe person to confide in regarding any sexual abuse

reminds me of the time years ago that an md poster said he WOULD KNOW if there was any abuse going on in his church
he found out he was wrong.

I'm not sure what the intent of this is other than to be some kind of vague accusation or character assassination; however, questioning a statistic of 1 of 3 women in BMA or Keystone circles being a "victim of sexual abuse" does not make me "not a safe person to confide in" one way or the other.

The 1 in 3 statistic is obviously bogus and made up, and false information like this makes actually talking about abuse and dealing with it much harder. "Advocates" tend to do this, and reasonable people simply quit listening to them.

In the case of Keystone it is particularly absurd with the culture of mandatory reporting that exists there now. Every little thing that might be overheard in a school setting has to be handled formally. I don't have firsthand experience with this but I hear Easterns there are now the same way. If the rate really is 1 in 3, there is a vast conspiracy that includes government social services, the police, and the victims themselves to keep it such a well kept secret.

[Signtist]

I've wanted to do a mandatory, anonymous poll in a Mennonite church or conference that would ask age, gender, if you were abused, at what age, and a checklist of abusive actions. I'd once and for all like to settle this question of sexual abuse rates, but in my experience it's more than Josh thinks by a whole lot.

[Only an Anz]

I don't think it is "extra bad" in Anabaptists. I think you are right, it is found everywhere.

It s extra "cringe worthy" in a religious setting, in my opinion. And here's why: we have a tendency to blame the victim for reporting it. This was very real to me when we dealt with a situation in our own home. We took our daughter's side while extended family made remarks like, "why did she have to tell a school teacher?" And even comments like "that's what you get sending your children to public school!"

Never mind the fact we had a predator amongst us. No one cared about that. Still makes me sick to my stomach at times. Sorry for the rant.

What I meant was that I don't think Anabaptists or Christians are necessarily more prone to sexual abuse. I think that is universal. But I think Christians and Anabaptists in particular are often worse at dealing with it for the types of reasons that you cite. The 'circling the wagons' phenomenon. And the refusal to believe ill of fellow members, even when confronted with evidence. Also the idea that there are religious answers to what is a behavioral problem and sickness.

Right. In a case I know of, the abuser was portrayed as a "struggling brother in Christ". Said "struggling brother" molested at least 14 children (boys and girls), including a couple of his own family members, and no one ever involved the police. Victims were told it was their duty to forgive.

[Sliceitup]

it is obvious to me that josh is not a safe person to confide in regarding any sexual abuse

reminds me of the time years ago that an md poster said he WOULD KNOW if there was any abuse going on in his church
he found out he was wrong.

I'm not sure what the intent of this is other than to be some kind of vague accusation or character assassination; however, questioning a statistic of 1 of 3 women in BMA or Keystone circles being a "victim of sexual abuse" does not make me "not a safe person to confide in" one way or the other.

The 1 in 3 statistic is obviously bogus and made up, and false information like this makes actually talking about abuse and dealing with it much harder. "Advocates" tend to do this, and reasonable people simply quit listening to them.

In the case of Keystone it is particularly absurd with the culture of mandatory reporting that exists there now. Every little thing that might be overheard in a school setting has to be handled formally. I don't have firsthand experience with this but I hear Easterns there are now the same way. If the rate really is 1 in 3, there is a vast conspiracy that includes government social services, the police, and the victims themselves to keep it such a well kept secret.

The Keystone churches you’re familiar with must be very different than the one I am familiar with. They weren’t interested in complying with the mandatory reporting and background checks that were required in the wake of Sandusky. I was assured by those in charge that they would report serious things, but the official document outlining the policy was incredibly wishy washy.

[Sudsy]

My guess is that in many churches there is very little teaching and belief in the need for believers to walk in the Spirit and they will not give way to the flesh. There seems to be some kind of belief that when one becomes a believer / is born again that they now have the Holy Spirit living in them but there is not an understanding that we are to now live according to the Holy Spirit's guidance. Scripture says if we live by the Spirit we won't give way to fleshly desires.

It isn't preaching on what to wear and what not to wear that is needed. That is a form of the law. We now are to be living according to the Spirit and if we do, whenever we are not living as God desires us to, if we are listening (have spiritual ears to what the Spirit is saying) and we are willing to crucify the flesh, the Spirit gives us overcoming, supernatural ability to live as God desires.

There is a possibility that some churched folk are either not born again, or are not living by the Spirit. They may have very little experience in being led by the Spirit as they are trying to live the Christian life by some set of rules or by just living by their own thoughts and never really consulting the Spirit for His guidance.

This life by the Spirit should not be taken for granted and it is a moment by moment intended way to live that is a battle with the flesh. However, there isn't anything that can't be overcome or anything that God will not give us the grace to live with. Some here don't seem to believe that and want to put their trust in man. Well as long as one thinks that, they won't experience a victorious Christian life. We must turn all of our lives over to the Spirit's control.

With that said, I am in this battle every day, moment by moment. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. But when I lose it is me to blame, not God. I believe mature believers are those who primarily are trusting in God for everything and walk by the Spirit. Jesus offers us an abundant life but we must give up our own way of running our lives.

It isn't whether one is associated with being some kind of Anabaptist or Pentecostal or whatever but rather what kind of association we have with God through the Holy Spirit. Dealing with sexual sins are no big deal for God. I have had to learn the hard way in this area because I turned a deaf ear to the Holy Spirit. I am so glad that God forgives us all of our sins and is always there to guide us in the way we should go.