Racial-ethnic groups within the Church

[temporal1]

He talks a good talk, but then I read this on his personal website:

...Glen has training in anti-racism and creating safe work environments.

https://www.glenguyton.com/about

o.my.
i ventured onto his FB page.
well, they got their lib gov ordained sacred cow. he’s got all the hep political credentials. that’s the important thing.
does he ever refer to scriptures? or, why bother?



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Maybe this will resonate (with some): Liberation Theology

I cannot get on to wikipedia - some sort of security deal.
Anyway, admittedly I have not followed recent developments in LT, or read anything written in the last 25 years or so, and then only the original proponents in Latin America.

Also, most of what I said above is from personal experience in how the ideas of LT were applied in Brazil, and also from others who encountered it much more than we did, in their work in other parts of South America, especially in Peru, relating to the Shining Path, as I recall.

So it could well be that some have taken some of the ideas and used them in profitable ways,
but I would still maintain that the intents of the original movement were tied up in Marxism and especially the ideas of class struggle. (I don't think I am contradicting what I said previously, that it at first seemed like a good thing based on the actual writing, because it was the original proponents who put it into practice, and it was then that their real ideas became clear.

But I have also not followed those authors, so it is possible that they themselves refocused the movement. I do not know.

But regardless, the original ideas were being used in various parts of South America during our time there in Brazil,
so I will at least insist on saying that caution should be observed.
That is something we should always do, regardless of the origin of the ideas being considered.)

i sure think so.
temptations are dependably presented as innocuous, if not attractive, they become insidious.

for myself, since grasping the hard turn the West has taken in EXPORTING RADICAL SECULARISM, i have grown an appreciation for the prior work of missionaries, including Catholicism. who does not know of failures+abuses, errors, in Christian missions??!!
extremely well documented, normalized in gov ed, etc.

in my real life, i’ve met folks from S.A., China, Haiti, and elsewhere, who credit Catholic missions in their countries for their good education, including Bible literacy. they make great U.S. citizens. for every reason. i advise my adult children to be alert to the probability that migrants they meet may very well know the Bible and take their Christian faith more seriously and respectfully than U.S.-born+raised Christians+Catholics.

being aware of this, i admit to being mortified to witness Christian mission efforts replaced by western-brand secularism.
“jumping from the frying pan into the fire.” it’s chilling.

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It’s well to recognize the roots of LT as Catholic, and South American.

i agree with your caution for Christians to keep eyes wide open, i believe Voddie B. would fully agree.
VB did not elaborate, he made a reference that caught my interest. VB cautions about what LT has become.
i expect he’s knowledgeable about its origins.

it’s to be expected, those who are ensnared will step up to defend.

“EXPORTING RADICAL SECULARISM”

[temporal1]

He talks a good talk, but then I read this on his personal website: https://www.glenguyton.com/about

What are your issues with anti racism and safe work environments?

I suppose it depends on what Mr. Guyton means by those terms. I suspect the good Admiral sees something problematic being smuggled in with otherwise innocuous-sounding terminology. After all, who could be for racism and against safety?

Mr G’s FB page spells it out.

[joshuabgood]

He talks a good talk, but then I read this on his personal website: https://www.glenguyton.com/about

What are your issues with anti racism and safe work environments?

I suppose it depends on what Mr. Guyton means by those terms. I suspect the good Admiral sees something problematic being smuggled in with otherwise innocuous-sounding terminology. After all, who could be for racism and against safety?

As one who has worked in racist and unsafe environments, the worst being a conservative Anabaptist construction crew I once worked with, in fact some people are for such things. Safe work environments (for women and people of color) are indeed something to stiven for.

[HondurasKeiser]

What are your issues with anti racism and safe work environments?

I suppose it depends on what Mr. Guyton means by those terms. I suspect the good Admiral sees something problematic being smuggled in with otherwise innocuous-sounding terminology. After all, who could be for racism and against safety?

As one who has worked in racist and unsafe environments, the worst being a conservative Anabaptist construction crew I once worked with, in fact some people are for such things. Safe work environments (for women and people of color) are indeed something to stiven for.

Again, I suppose it matters what Mr. Guyton means by those words. What does it mean to you, to create 'safe working environments for women and people of color'?

[joshuabgood]

I suppose it depends on what Mr. Guyton means by those terms. I suspect the good Admiral sees something problematic being smuggled in with otherwise innocuous-sounding terminology. After all, who could be for racism and against safety?

As one who has worked in racist and unsafe environments, the worst being a conservative Anabaptist construction crew I once worked with, in fact some people are for such things. Safe work environments (for women and people of color) are indeed something to stiven for.

Again, I suppose it matters what Mr. Guyton means by those words. What does it mean to you, to create 'safe working environments for women and people of color'?

Well for starters, no black jokes and no sex jokes.

[HondurasKeiser]

As one who has worked in racist and unsafe environments, the worst being a conservative Anabaptist construction crew I once worked with, in fact some people are for such things. Safe work environments (for women and people of color) are indeed something to stiven for.

Again, I suppose it matters what Mr. Guyton means by those words. What does it mean to you, to create 'safe working environments for women and people of color'?

Well for starters, no black jokes and no sex jokes.

Yes, that seems good. In a Christian institution (say a missions board or a school) I might categorize that prohibition differently than 'safety' perhaps something like, "pure, clean, beautiful speech that recognizes the inherent dignity of all" but nevertheless we agree that such things ought to be verboten in our settings. It's sad to me that your Anabaptist construction crew used such speech and held such attitudes about other people.

[Ken]

Again, I suppose it matters what Mr. Guyton means by those words. What does it mean to you, to create 'safe working environments for women and people of color'?

Well for starters, no black jokes and no sex jokes.

Yes, that seems good. In a Christian institution (say a missions board or a school) I might categorize that prohibition differently than 'safety' perhaps something like, "pure, clean, beautiful speech that recognizes the inherent dignity of all" but nevertheless we agree that such things ought to be verboten in our settings. It's sad to me that your Anabaptist construction crew used such speech and held such attitudes about other people.

Honestly, racism in this country (and race itself) is largely an invention by white people for the purpose expanding white power over the lands, possessions, labor, and freedom of others. And in more recent times, for hording privilege such as access to jobs, benefits, education, etc.

As a white invention and white problem it shouldn't have fall on people of color like Mr. Guyton to solve racism. It is something that white people should be taking the lead on. Unfortunately that often doesn't seem to happen.

[HondurasKeiser]

Well for starters, no black jokes and no sex jokes.

Yes, that seems good. In a Christian institution (say a missions board or a school) I might categorize that prohibition differently than 'safety' perhaps something like, "pure, clean, beautiful speech that recognizes the inherent dignity of all" but nevertheless we agree that such things ought to be verboten in our settings. It's sad to me that your Anabaptist construction crew used such speech and held such attitudes about other people.

Honestly, racism in this country (and race itself) is largely an invention by white people for the purpose expanding white power over the lands, possessions, labor, and freedom of others. And in more recent times, for hording privilege such as access to jobs, benefits, education, etc.

As a white invention and white problem it shouldn't have fall on people of color like Mr. Guyton to solve racism. It is something that white people should be taking the lead on. Unfortunately that often doesn't seem to happen.

So, for instance, what are you doing to 'solve racism'?

[joshuabgood]

Yes, that seems good. In a Christian institution (say a missions board or a school) I might categorize that prohibition differently than 'safety' perhaps something like, "pure, clean, beautiful speech that recognizes the inherent dignity of all" but nevertheless we agree that such things ought to be verboten in our settings. It's sad to me that your Anabaptist construction crew used such speech and held such attitudes about other people.

I am fine with your language. I am also fine with saying we want safe spaces for everyone. That is what I want EMS to be. It is not just self centered improvement but actually caring for other people and their wellbeing. The lack of appropriate communication stems from a lack of empathy...or plainly, love.

FWIW - it isn't relegated to construction crews. Here at EMS we have dealt with semi-routinely, racial comments made by students from your conference (as well as others) that are mostly ignorance and not malicious, but still racist and hurtful, and keeps school from being safe for some. In the past 4-5 years on multiple occasions with different students and their parents I have confronted race/immigrant based jokes, Asian eyes jokes ethnic based jokes, comments made more than once, to people of color - usually adopted students - like 'your my slave" etc. In other cases a comment on buses to a student of color that "black lives don't matter" when driving by BLM signs. These are of course by children and youths and I expect no less. Racism is an inherent part of the sinful human propensity toward partiality and tribalism. It manifests itself individually and with culture...with in groups. And children pick up attitudes around them as well toward immigrants, BLM, etc.

To solve this we have educational/discipleship conversations about what race means in America...we often talk through Ruby Bridges, the 16th street bombing and the siblings that are still alive bearing sensitivity, discipling for humility that we don't actually know what it is like to be a person of color in America. etc. The goal is real empathy, humility, and a seeing all as image bearers of God.

We have real work to do around seeing all people as image bearers of God and loving them like we do ourselves and wanting for them (including at the border) what we would want for ourselves. So Mr. Guyton's work I think is really appropriate and whether it is called making safe spaces or keeping our conduct holy is really a red herring.

[Ken]

Yes, that seems good. In a Christian institution (say a missions board or a school) I might categorize that prohibition differently than 'safety' perhaps something like, "pure, clean, beautiful speech that recognizes the inherent dignity of all" but nevertheless we agree that such things ought to be verboten in our settings. It's sad to me that your Anabaptist construction crew used such speech and held such attitudes about other people.

Honestly, racism in this country (and race itself) is largely an invention by white people for the purpose expanding white power over the lands, possessions, labor, and freedom of others. And in more recent times, for hording privilege such as access to jobs, benefits, education, etc.

As a white invention and white problem it shouldn't have fall on people of color like Mr. Guyton to solve racism. It is something that white people should be taking the lead on. Unfortunately that often doesn't seem to happen.

So, for instance, what are you doing to 'solve racism'?

I confront it when I see it in friends, co-workers, family, etc.
I do not tolerate it when I see it or encounter it in students and/or subordinates
I make deliberate efforts to be inclusive and to question or examine blind spots that I might have related to race
I don't support politicians, businesses, and other organizations that make racist appeals.

And generally speaking try to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem.