Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[temporal1]

Most reports are of heavy damage. So, who knows?
Probably 500 on board.

It reminds of the USS Cole.

Russia Says Ammunition Blast Badly Damages Flagship of Black Sea Fleet
https://www.voanews.com/a/russia-says-a ... 28854.html

https://www.wsj.com/articles/russias-bl ... =flipboard

“It’s a hugely important military event and the biggest defeat of the Russian Navy since World War II,” Ukraine’s presidential adviser Oleksiy Arestovych wrote on social media. The alleged sinking of the cruiser, he added, is particularly important because Moskva is Russian for Moscow, and because it would be the biggest warship by tonnage sunk since 1945

It’s another example of what we see in daily reporting, with or without war: Language varies greatly depending on bias.

Did Ukraine hit the ship, or was it an on-board “accident?” Was it damaged or did it sink? Define “sunk.”
“Sunk” could mean, crippled. A colloquial use.

It’s hard to believe all 500 on board were rescued. i don’t care about the warship, but, 500 souls, and their loved ones.
Maybe many injured, many fatalities?? It’s hard to imagine no fatalities.

As Soloist describes, there was a horrible and crippling explosion on the USS Forrestral in 1967, in 2000, the USS Cole was deliberately hit. Both had fatalities+casualities, both ships were repaired. It would take a lot to sink one of these massive crafts.

i’m sorry the Pope’s call for an Easter truce, along with millions+millions of prayers for resolution/peace, have not yet ended this.

Violence is primitive. The most base action of humankind.

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It doesn’t make sense for the U.S. to support massive military border protection for Ukraine, while many fight so hard for open U.S. borders. People coming into the U.S., legally or not, vaccinated or not, no papers (legal citizens must have papers for everything) are treated humanely, given rights+protections, are transported throughout the U.S. on luxury carriers, to resettle, they are housed+fed, find work, are given every opp for education/higher ed, and more+more are allowed to vote. This has been the way for decades, it’s nothing new.

One would think the U.S. would advise Ukraine to meet firearms with hot meals and clean beds for rest.
The U.S. is experienced and in position to lead.

[mike]

New, heavier weapons: For the first time since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, the US is providing Kyiv with high-power capabilities, including Mi-17 helicopters and 18 155 mm Howitzer cannons. The new weapons package represents the starkest sign to date that the war in Ukraine is shifting, to deal with the type of fighting that’s likely to take place in the Donbas region — open terrain rather than the close fighting in urban and wooded areas. The EU has also approved an additional 500 million euros for military equipment for Ukraine.

[ohio jones]

i’m sorry the Pope’s call for an Easter truce, along with millions+millions of prayers for resolution/peace, have not yet ended this.

It's my impression that none of the dozen or so Orthodox patriarchs pay much attention to what the Pope has to say. If one or more (ideally all) of those guys would call for a cessation of violence rather than egging on their respective national interests, maybe somebunny would listen.

[Josh]

i’m sorry the Pope’s call for an Easter truce, along with millions+millions of prayers for resolution/peace, have not yet ended this.

It's my impression that none of the dozen or so Orthodox patriarchs pay much attention to what the Pope has to say. If one or more (ideally all) of those guys would call for a cessation of violence rather than egging on their respective national interests, maybe somebunny would listen.

The Eastern church hasn’t been listening to the Western church about geopolitical matters for 968 years, but maybe things will change now.

[Szdfan]

New, heavier weapons: For the first time since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, the US is providing Kyiv with high-power capabilities, including Mi-17 helicopters and 18 155 mm Howitzer cannons. The new weapons package represents the starkest sign to date that the war in Ukraine is shifting, to deal with the type of fighting that’s likely to take place in the Donbas region — open terrain rather than the close fighting in urban and wooded areas. The EU has also approved an additional 500 million euros for military equipment for Ukraine.

I saw some blurb that says the upcoming battle will likely be the largest tank battle since World War II. It feels surreal.

[mike]

New, heavier weapons: For the first time since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, the US is providing Kyiv with high-power capabilities, including Mi-17 helicopters and 18 155 mm Howitzer cannons. The new weapons package represents the starkest sign to date that the war in Ukraine is shifting, to deal with the type of fighting that’s likely to take place in the Donbas region — open terrain rather than the close fighting in urban and wooded areas. The EU has also approved an additional 500 million euros for military equipment for Ukraine.

I saw some blurb that says the upcoming battle will likely be the largest tank battle since World War II. It feels surreal.

It feels like we just went back 100 years.

[Szdfan]

I saw some blurb that says the upcoming battle will likely be the largest tank battle since World War II. It feels surreal.

It feels like we just went back 100 years.

I think one of the assumptions of the post-WWII and post-Cold War eras is that a war of this magnitude couldn't happen again -- that Europe was too interconnected for this kind of aggressive behavior. Certainly, the war following the break up of Yugoslavia was terrible, but it was a mostly contained, regional conflict. The war in Ukraine feels bigger and more awful in every way. The brutality is unimaginable.

[mike]

I saw some blurb that says the upcoming battle will likely be the largest tank battle since World War II. It feels surreal.

It feels like we just went back 100 years.

I think one of the assumptions of the post-WWII and post-Cold War eras is that a war of this magnitude couldn't happen again -- that Europe was too interconnected for this kind of aggressive behavior. Certainly, the war following the break up of Yugoslavia was terrible, but it was a mostly contained, regional conflict. The war in Ukraine feels bigger and more awful in every way. The brutality is unimaginable.

I hope and pray that civilians at least are able to leave the areas where these upcoming battles will happen. God help them.

[Ken]

New, heavier weapons: For the first time since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, the US is providing Kyiv with high-power capabilities, including Mi-17 helicopters and 18 155 mm Howitzer cannons. The new weapons package represents the starkest sign to date that the war in Ukraine is shifting, to deal with the type of fighting that’s likely to take place in the Donbas region — open terrain rather than the close fighting in urban and wooded areas. The EU has also approved an additional 500 million euros for military equipment for Ukraine.

I saw some blurb that says the upcoming battle will likely be the largest tank battle since World War II. It feels surreal.

I read some accounts predicting the second battle of Kursk but in reverse, which happened just north of the Donbass on similar terrain in 1943: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kursk

It would be the reverse of the Battle of Kursk because this time it would be the Russians trying to pinch off a salient and try to encircle defending troops who know exactly where they are coming from. Whereas in the Battle of Kursk it was the Germans who tried that exact same thing with 10x more troops over a smaller area and failed.

I'm no military expert but I sort of doubt it will be that, at least not at this moment in time. The Battle of Kursk occurred in July and August 1943 when the steppe was hot and dry and the soils were rock hard late summer. So you had German tank armies attacking across a wide front on hard ground. We are still in spring rain and mud season in Ukraine which is forcing the Russians to stick to the highways. So any tank attacks are more likely to be coming in long single-file columns on existing roads rather than cross country in broad waves. Modern tanks are also much heavier than the WW2 versions so even more prone to getting stuck and harder to get unstuck. One would think that would make it much easier to defend against and much harder to achieve the objective of encirclement. Because by now the Ukrainian troops should have every road and intersection zeroed in by long distance artillery. They already know where the Russians will be coming from. And especially if the Ukrainian troops are using lighter equipment or on foot and aren't so constrained by soft ground. It sounds like the Russians have a lot of heavy equipment but not that many troops so they will be especially constrained to roads in the open country.

Attacking fixed locations when the opposition knows you are coming and has time to prepare always seems to be a recipe for enormous difficulty. When the Germans tried that in WW2 in Stalingrad and Kursk they lost. When the Americans tried it at Iwo Jima in 1945 it took over 100,000 troops and cost 27,000 casualties to take a 8 square mile island defended by 20,000 troops. The Russians are doing that now in Mariupol where it has taken them over 50 days and horrendous casualties and they still haven't defeated the one battalion of defenders still there.

[Ken]

It feels like we just went back 100 years.

I think one of the assumptions of the post-WWII and post-Cold War eras is that a war of this magnitude couldn't happen again -- that Europe was too interconnected for this kind of aggressive behavior. Certainly, the war following the break up of Yugoslavia was terrible, but it was a mostly contained, regional conflict. The war in Ukraine feels bigger and more awful in every way. The brutality is unimaginable.

I hope and pray that civilians at least are able to leave the areas where these upcoming battles will happen. God help them.

Reportedly the Russians are trying to prevent civilians from evacuating under the assumption that having civilians around will make it harder for the defending Ukrainians who will presumably be more worried about civilian casualties than attacking Russians. Also there are reports that the Russians are forcing children in occupied cities to attend school rather than shelter at home, in effect using them as human shields against approaching Ukrainian troops.