Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Szdfan]

It is also true that a significant amount of the middle class that opposes Putin has left Russia in the past month for Finland, Armenia and Georgia.

What percentage is significant amount?

I've seen estimates between 100,000 and 200,000.

[Ken]

It is also true that a significant amount of the middle class that opposes Putin has left Russia in the past month for Finland, Armenia and Georgia.

What percentage is significant amount?

I've seen estimates between 100,000 and 200,000.

Turkey is also a popular destination.

Of course a lot of them would probably prefer to go to the UK or US but that is tougher since Russians generally can't claim refugee status unlike Ukrainians.

[Sudsy]

I haven't followed this thread so I might be repeating this question but I'll ask it anyway.

I have heard where some media sources are saying that the facts of what actually is happening in the war is being hidden from Putin. This puzzles me to think that in this age of technology that, for instance, Putin can't personally view CNN on his, probably enormous, home (castle) screen.

Is it really that possible that Putin is not aware of what the media is showing and only listens to his own advisors ? This seems like a real stretch to believe. Thoughts ?

[temporal1]

I haven't followed this thread so I might be repeating this question but I'll ask it anyway.

I have heard where some media sources are saying that the facts of what actually is happening in the war is being hidden from Putin. This puzzles me to think that in this age of technology that, for instance, Putin can't personally view CNN on his, probably enormous, home (castle) screen.

Is it really that possible that Putin is not aware of what the media is showing and only listens to his own advisors ?
This seems like a real stretch to believe. Thoughts ?

Think of hillary in 2016. And the entire mainstream media. i was among the very surprised.
It is possible to ignore those messages you don’t want to hear. To dismiss “the deplorables.” etc.
It is possible to lie to people you fear.

- - - - - - -

“Ukrainian Refugees Top 4 Million, Nearing 10% of Population”
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... population

.. Just over 350,000 have fled to Russia. ..

[Josh]

I haven't followed this thread so I might be repeating this question but I'll ask it anyway.

I have heard where some media sources are saying that the facts of what actually is happening in the war is being hidden from Putin. This puzzles me to think that in this age of technology that, for instance, Putin can't personally view CNN on his, probably enormous, home (castle) screen.

Is it really that possible that Putin is not aware of what the media is showing and only listens to his own advisors ? This seems like a real stretch to believe. Thoughts ?

Well, I don’t think Biden is much aware of anything going on, considering he can’t keep straight which country he’s talking about.

[Ken]

I haven't followed this thread so I might be repeating this question but I'll ask it anyway.

I have heard where some media sources are saying that the facts of what actually is happening in the war is being hidden from Putin. This puzzles me to think that in this age of technology that, for instance, Putin can't personally view CNN on his, probably enormous, home (castle) screen.

Is it really that possible that Putin is not aware of what the media is showing and only listens to his own advisors ? This seems like a real stretch to believe. Thoughts ?

I find it hard to believe that Putin doesn't have the very best no-expense spared lightning fast internet connection with the worlds best computer and big screen monitor to surf whatever he wants on the internet. I mean, who in their right mind in the Russian government is going to filter and censor Putin's internet?

He also seems very smart and well-read and seems conversant on even obscure culture war stuff in the US. Like, for example, he recently called out JK Rowling, the Harry Potter author who has been criticized for being anti-trans and he has talked about how the west has 'canceled' JK Rowling.

That is some pretty obscure culture war stuff that one only picks up by spending hundreds of hours on Twitter. I seriously doubt that any official Russian intelligence briefing is going to be talking about lefty Twitter trolls in the west trying to 'cancel' JK Rowling. So it seems pretty obvious that Putin is reading unfiltered internet.

We aren't in the days of Stalin where leaders were 100% dependent on their intelligence services to provide them with information. I'm sure Putin has access to all the same stuff as all of us in addition to all his confidential intelligence information.

The surprising thing is that he didn't seem to be completely aware of how poorly equipped and trained some of his army units were. But that seems to be something that western intelligence missed too. Apparently there is a lot of corruption in the Russian military that has sapped readiness. And that seems to have been a surprise for everyone. And there is probably also a lot of butt-covering going on within the military and intelligence services which is the sort of thing that happens in every country. The US was in Afghanistan for 20 years, for example, and it was never the military's fault for whatever failures were happening. They only just needed 6 more months and $10 billion more dollars to succeed. Until we finally found out that yes, they were actually failing and yes, it was actually their fault.

[Sudsy]

I haven't followed this thread so I might be repeating this question but I'll ask it anyway.

I have heard where some media sources are saying that the facts of what actually is happening in the war is being hidden from Putin. This puzzles me to think that in this age of technology that, for instance, Putin can't personally view CNN on his, probably enormous, home (castle) screen.

Is it really that possible that Putin is not aware of what the media is showing and only listens to his own advisors ? This seems like a real stretch to believe. Thoughts ?

Well, I don’t think Biden is much aware of anything going on, considering he can’t keep straight which country he’s talking about.

Hey, don't be pickin on us old guys. I personally know what it is like to deal with brain drain. Most of you folks have this to look forward to although I have heard some over 90 folks that seem to have been blessed with an amazing sharpness in their thinking.

I think Biden's handlers have to be ready at any minute to explain or walk back things he says when he goes off script. My guess is that they may or should put a maximum age for anyone to run for the president's office in the near future. Myself, I would prefer to see those of the highest decision makers to have to pass a mental evaluation test every 2 years to hold their positions. Especially the Supreme Court. Not all of us, regardless of education and experience, are capable as we age.

[Josh]

I am regularly around people 80+ who are very sharp. Something is going wrong with Biden.

[Sudsy]

I haven't followed this thread so I might be repeating this question but I'll ask it anyway.

I have heard where some media sources are saying that the facts of what actually is happening in the war is being hidden from Putin. This puzzles me to think that in this age of technology that, for instance, Putin can't personally view CNN on his, probably enormous, home (castle) screen.

Is it really that possible that Putin is not aware of what the media is showing and only listens to his own advisors ? This seems like a real stretch to believe. Thoughts ?

I find it hard to believe that Putin doesn't have the very best no-expense spared lightning fast internet connection with the worlds best computer and big screen monitor to surf whatever he wants on the internet. I mean, who in their right mind in the Russian government is going to filter and censor Putin's internet?

He also seems very smart and well-read and seems conversant on even obscure culture war stuff in the US. Like, for example, he recently called out JK Rowling, the Harry Potter author who has been criticized for being anti-trans and he has talked about how the west has 'canceled' JK Rowling.

That is some pretty obscure culture war stuff that one only picks up by spending hundreds of hours on Twitter. I seriously doubt that any official Russian intelligence briefing is going to be talking about lefty Twitter trolls in the west trying to 'cancel' JK Rowling. So it seems pretty obvious that Putin is reading unfiltered internet.

We aren't in the days of Stalin where leaders were 100% dependent on their intelligence services to provide them with information. I'm sure Putin has access to all the same stuff as all of us in addition to all his confidential intelligence information.

The surprising thing is that he didn't seem to be completely aware of how poorly equipped and trained some of his army units were. But that seems to be something that western intelligence missed too. Apparently there is a lot of corruption in the Russian military that has sapped readiness. And that seems to have been a surprise for everyone. And there is probably also a lot of butt-covering going on within the military and intelligence services which is the sort of thing that happens in every country. The US was in Afghanistan for 20 years, for example, and it was never the military's fault for whatever failures were happening. They only just needed 6 more months and $10 billion more dollars to succeed. Until we finally found out that yes, they were actually failing and yes, it was actually their fault.

So, is the alternative then that he really is that ruthless in achieving his goals ? That sounds sooo cold to the sufferings of both his and other's people. I guess we saw this with Hitler and others. Truly amazing how a single man can have such power over the masses of mankind. And shows how the end times anti-Christ is quite possible in his/her rule (heaven forbid 'her' ). Scanning Youtube I'm beginning to think a guy like Elon Musk could possibly be this person.

[Neto]

So, is the alternative then that [Putin] really is that ruthless in achieving his goals ? That sounds sooo cold to the sufferings of both his and other's people.

After the fall of South Vietnam in 75, as I began to see some of the political realities behind that war, as my patriotic gungho attitude toward war faded away, I had to think of how those in power in the States had just kept right on sending young men to their deaths in a war they had already decided not to win, but just kept on doing it until they could "do it with honor". Is there any honor in that at all, even politically speaking? I could think of a lot a ways to criticize President Putin, but in that sense alone, he just doesn't seem any worse that all of the others.