Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[ken_sylvania]

Here is analysis by the chief diplomatic correspondent for the NYT quoting Putin: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/worl ... ation.html

BRUSSELS — President Biden took office with the idea that this century’s struggle would be between the world’s democracies and autocracies.

But in waging war on Ukraine, President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia has been driven by a different concept, ethno-nationalism. It is an idea of nationhood and identity based on language, culture and blood — a collectivist ideology with deep roots in Russian history and thought.

Mr. Putin has repeatedly asserted that Ukraine is not a real state and that the Ukrainians are not a real people, but actually Russian, part of a Slavic heartland that also includes Belarus.

“Putin wants to consolidate the civilizational border of Russia, as he calls it, and he is doing that by invading a sovereign European country,” said Ivan Vejvoda, a senior fellow at the Institute of Human Sciences in Vienna.

In this sense, argues Ivan Krastev, the war is one of recolonization, capturing lands ruled by the Russian empire and the Soviet Union. “Even if Ukraine were autocratic, it would not be tolerated by Putin,” he said. “He’s reconsolidating imperial nationalism.’’[/b]

The article quotes a lot of people saying what they think Putin is thinking or what he will or won't do, or what he will or won't tolerate, but the article itself doesn't seem to have any Putin quotes in it. Why do you say it is quoting Putin?

[Ken]

Here is analysis by the chief diplomatic correspondent for the NYT quoting Putin: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/worl ... ation.html

BRUSSELS — President Biden took office with the idea that this century’s struggle would be between the world’s democracies and autocracies.

But in waging war on Ukraine, President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia has been driven by a different concept, ethno-nationalism. It is an idea of nationhood and identity based on language, culture and blood — a collectivist ideology with deep roots in Russian history and thought.

Mr. Putin has repeatedly asserted that Ukraine is not a real state and that the Ukrainians are not a real people, but actually Russian, part of a Slavic heartland that also includes Belarus.

“Putin wants to consolidate the civilizational border of Russia, as he calls it, and he is doing that by invading a sovereign European country,” said Ivan Vejvoda, a senior fellow at the Institute of Human Sciences in Vienna.

In this sense, argues Ivan Krastev, the war is one of recolonization, capturing lands ruled by the Russian empire and the Soviet Union. “Even if Ukraine were autocratic, it would not be tolerated by Putin,” he said. “He’s reconsolidating imperial nationalism.’’[/b]

The article quotes a lot of people saying what they think Putin is thinking or what he will or won't do, or what he will or won't tolerate, but the article itself doesn't seem to have any Putin quotes in it. Why do you say it is quoting Putin?

You are quibbling with the fact that one of the three articles I linked to had Russian experts paraphrasing Putin's words rather than quoting directly? You do realize that Putin speaks in Russian and his actual words are written in Cyrillic? Translations themselves are in essence paraphrases as you can't capture every nuance of meaning through a translation. Would you find it more helpful if I found the original text of Putin's words in Cyrillic?

In any event, in the interest of being comprehensive, here is another article from the same source that does a much deeper dive into Putin's actual words. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/23/worl ... raine.html There is extensive language in which Putin denies the legitimacy of the Ukrainian state and nationality. But strangely no mention of Falco's claim that the war was about Ukraine's desire to have nuclear weapons.

[Szdfan]

Russian missiles struck Lviv today, which is 50 miles from the Polish border.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/26/worl ... trike.html

[Dan Z]

Biden ended a speech in Poland this afternoon saying about Putin - "This man can not remain in power." I find this kind of rhetoric provocative and unhelpful if peace is to be achieved. It echos the regime-change rhetoric that has fueled the Ukraine crisis in the first place.

[Soloist]

Biden ended a speech in Poland this afternoon saying about Putin - "This man can not remain in power." I find this kind of rhetoric provocative and unhelpful if peace is to be achieved. It echos the regime-change rhetoric that has fueled the Ukraine crisis in the first place.

I told my wife that if Russia backs down, the US Media will make sure to rub it in their face. Personally, I think the weakness of Russia is being wrote heavily about is western propaganda. The heavy censorship for any Russian opinions are perturbing to say the least and its very difficult to find in English.

[Szdfan]

Biden ended a speech in Poland this afternoon saying about Putin - "This man can not remain in power." I find this kind of rhetoric provocative and unhelpful if peace is to be achieved. It echos the regime-change rhetoric that has fueled the Ukraine crisis in the first place.

Yes. Oops.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/03/26 ... velopments

Shortly after the speech in Poland, the White House tried to clarify Mr. Biden’s remarks, insisting that the president was not calling for regime change. “The president’s point was that Putin cannot be allowed to exercise power over his neighbors or the region,” a White House official said.

You can bet clips of Biden’s quote are all over Russian TV.

It also seems that the Russians may have also been sending a message by attacking Lviv.

His speech at the Royal Castle in Warsaw came amid reports that the Ukrainian city of Lviv just across the Polish border was hit by five missiles. The missiles hit at or near what is believed to be an oil storage facility, and thick black smoke billowed over the city.

“I think with these strikes the aggressor wants to say hello to President Biden who is in Poland, which is 70 kilometers away from Lviv,” the city’s mayor, Andriy Sadoviy, said at a news conference as air raid sirens sounded in the western Ukrainian city.

The missile strike happened shortly after Mr. Biden met with the Polish president, Andrzej Duda, at the presidential palace in Warsaw, where he pledged support for Poland, a key NATO ally that has expressed fears that the war in Ukraine could widen.

[Ken]

Biden ended a speech in Poland this afternoon saying about Putin - "This man can not remain in power." I find this kind of rhetoric provocative and unhelpful if peace is to be achieved. It echos the regime-change rhetoric that has fueled the Ukraine crisis in the first place.

Yes. Oops.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/03/26 ... velopments

Shortly after the speech in Poland, the White House tried to clarify Mr. Biden’s remarks, insisting that the president was not calling for regime change. “The president’s point was that Putin cannot be allowed to exercise power over his neighbors or the region,” a White House official said.

You can bet clips of Biden’s quote are all over Russian TV.

My guess is that all of this is scripted and none of it is unintentional mis-statements.

I expect that Biden said exactly what he intended to say for one particular audience. And then the White House issued a "clarification" to walk things back to communicate something else to another particular audience.

It is a very old trick.

And I don't think they care in the slightest about what gets on Russian TV. Russians aren't the audience for any of this and I doubt the US government holds out any hope at all of Russians rising up and overthrowing Putin.

[mike]

Biden ended a speech in Poland this afternoon saying about Putin - "This man can not remain in power." I find this kind of rhetoric provocative and unhelpful if peace is to be achieved. It echos the regime-change rhetoric that has fueled the Ukraine crisis in the first place.

It's just Biden saying what he thinks personally. Kind of like Trump used to do every five minutes on Twitter. Of course it isn't all that helpful. It just shows he is human, and makes the President actually somewhat more relatable when people know that has the same feelings that they do as they watch the Russian invasion. Biden going off script like this is probably the one thing you can actually believe that he said that day - all the scripted diplomacy and PR stuff is carefully crafted to obfuscate and shape world opinion without saying something of real substance.

[Szdfan]

Biden ended a speech in Poland this afternoon saying about Putin - "This man can not remain in power." I find this kind of rhetoric provocative and unhelpful if peace is to be achieved. It echos the regime-change rhetoric that has fueled the Ukraine crisis in the first place.

I told my wife that if Russia backs down, the US Media will make sure to rub it in their face. Personally, I think the weakness of Russia is being wrote heavily about is western propaganda. The heavy censorship for any Russian opinions are perturbing to say the least and its very difficult to find in English.

Russia Today is still creating and posting material online in English.

[temporal1]

Biden ended a speech in Poland this afternoon saying about Putin - "This man can not remain in power."

I find this kind of rhetoric provocative and unhelpful if peace is to be achieved.
It echos the regime-change rhetoric that has fueled the Ukraine crisis in the first place.

i agree with you, thus my questions about the U.S. and Left-West interferring with private talks, to the point Ukraine might not be allowed to freely find resolution with Russia. Which is about as awful as it gets.

i avoid following biden, but from what i’ve read since Feb 24, this supposed “gaff” is typical of his messages.
his rhetoric toward Putin is 100% hawkish without exception. (from what i’ve seen.) with media running behind him attempting to deny+cover up.

it’s noteworthy that the NYT swiftly covers for biden (rather than amplifying whatever it deemed unworthy from DJT).
in history, out of respect for the office, it wasn’t uncommon for media to cover for presidents.

biden, of course, is the biden career politician he has been in elected office over decades. no surprises.

i believe this was Larry Elder/Thomas Sowell prior to the 2020 election:



i don’t personally know anyone who has been in high elected office for decades who is “just a regular guy” like anyone else.
they live in an alternate reality, and frequently reveal their tone-deafness. biden is exceptional at gaffs, not an exception from them.

Putin has not harmed the U.S.
U.S. Congress and those in high U.S. office have.

biden is now leading great global harm to (Russia). intentionally crippling economic sanctions.
we’ll see what unfolds.

These are all very PROUD men.