Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Neto]

Interesting article in the Atlantic about how Ukrainian literature (including in the 19th century) resisted erasure by Russia and attempted to strengthen Ukrainian culture and identity.

https://www.theatlantic.com/books/archi ... ggKlTSJ1VQ

Ukrainians frequently speak of the need to become Ukrainians: to consolidate their culture, language, and institutions after centuries of imperial domination. What Ukrainians see as a work in progress, however, Russia interprets as weakness; it views Ukraine as an accident of history. Indeed, before he ordered in the tanks, Vladimir Putin spent nearly an hour on television trying to convince Russians that Ukraine was nothing but an “anti-Russia” engineered by the West on “our historical land.”

Ukrainian national identity is not an accident, nor was it invented by the West. But for centuries, Ukrainians have struggled to fend off attempts to erase their culture. In the early 19th century, Russian publishers accepted Ukrainian literature only if it was ethnographic, comedic, or apolitical. (Serious literature had to be in Russian.) Successive laws in 1863 and 1876 led to the effective banning of all works in the Ukrainian language, as well as their near-complete prohibition in public settings. In the 1930s, Stalin executed a whole generation of writers who had been rebuilding Ukrainian literary culture in the decade prior, brutally cutting short the growth of the country’s vibrant avant-garde.

The story of Ukrainian literature is one of defiance in the face of imperial arrogance. Often, Ukrainian writers worked cautiously within the restrictions the Russian empire imposed in order to create some semblance of a literary culture. Sometimes they tried to express their Ukrainianness through works written in Russian. Others chose outright criticism of Russian imperialism—and suffered for it. Others still simply laughed at the hubris of those intent on making Ukraine look insignificant.

I didn't read the whole article, but the part you quote here also reflects the writings of my people, who lived there during the time Ukraine was controlled by the Russian Empire, and also during the Soviet era. During the colony period all governmental relationships and communication were in Russian. A few have said that they also spoke some Ukrainian, especially those who had Ukrainian employees. A much stronger push for "Russification" started in around 1880. (I have already stated here that my great grandfather (Rempel), who immigrated to Nebraska in 1890 or 91, spoke Russian well enough that he worked professionally as a Russian-language translator after he learned English in the USA.)

[temporal1]

This^ Russians we know here in Germany believe Putin wholeheartedly. These are normally lovely people, warm, friendly and very open. But they really dislike Ukraine and believe that the Ukrainians are committing atrocities on their own people and just about every other narrative Putin has spun. There is a real fear that the Ukrainians will also start using chemical warfare.

When i visited Montreal, 1970-ish, i was mortified to find Quebecians Québécois hating+fighting each other over language.
When my 20-something son visited friends in Brazil, he returned in shock that Brazilians hate Mexicans. we don’t know why. not sure a reason is necessary.

With humans, nothing surprises too much. “It’s always something.”

We lived in Brazil for 18 years, and have visited there several times since, and I do not recall ever having heard that.

However, we never lived in southern Brazil, where most tourists go. We lived in three different large cities, Forteleza, CE for 10 months, Brasilia (federal capitol) for 5 months, and the remainder of that time in Porto Velho, RO (except for the time we were in the village, in the state of Amazonas).

There were individuals who said that they "like Americans, but hate out government" (during the 2nd Iraq war), and many sided with Cuba against the US, feeling that the embargo against them should have been lifted long ago. (I am not political, but tend to agree. Why does the USA do business with China & Vietnam, and not Cuba?)

Thanks. i don’t doubt this at all.
i think, when making a statement like my son did, “people in Brazil hate Mexicans,” this probably reflects “those people i met,” in any given country. Brazil is huge+diverse, i would expect regional and local variations. For instance, when we visited Quebec and ran into heated fighting over language, i don’t believe this was happening in other provinces. When someone visits NYC, they will have a different experience than if they visited New Orleans.

So, other than what politicians+media claim, unity within any given country is questionable. At best, they may speak of majorities (and hope they’re right, or insist they’re right) but ..

My son was visiting near Iguazu Falls, they visited the falls, and they also took him hours into the jungle to visit family there.

He was in his 20’s, it was quite an eye opener for him. Poverty shocked him. No running hot water. In town, their apartment had gates across the front, like seen in some areas of urban Chicago. They were so good to him. i’m sure he was an appreciative good guest. He said he never had better food! (i tried not to take it personally.) and i believed him. i grew up in poverty, but my mother and aunts were great cooks, preparing tasty meals was valued, an art, really. very social. economic poverty is not “the worst thing.”
spiritual poverty may be.

Neto:
There were individuals who said that they "like Americans, but hate out government" ..

i’m really grateful our mother planted this seed in our young brains even during the height of the Cold War about the Russian people. This certainly was not the common thought in the world. Somehow, she was able to separate the drumbeats of war+hate from the ordinary masses (everywhere) who end up suffering most for “other peoples’ designs of war.” My father, too. They were resolute, not confused, in this.

[temporal1]

Speaking of spiritual poverty.

hollywood over-represents the U.S., sorry to say.
i pray Zelensky declines, and keeps his distance.

“Amy Schumer tried to get Zelensky to appear at Oscars”
https://variety.com/2022/film/news/amy- ... 235210388/

[Josh]

Why do you think that? Very few Americans reacted to atrocities when they thought the US was "fighting terror"

I was under the impression that quite a few of us Americans were reacting to American atrocities. I'm not in the streets protesting Russia's actions like I was those of the US. All invasions are wrong, but now is the time to focus on the invasion taking place now.

America is currently engaging in or supporting invasions just as bad as the current incidents with Russia.

For example, America just shipped more missiles to Saudi Arabia to be rained down on Yemen. I do not understand why Ukraine generates so much more sympathy and press then Yemen.

[RZehr]

I think nations going to war is preferable to nations turning to Sodom, I see the west as Sodom right now. Sodom is always condemned in scripture, nations going to war is not.

The sin of Sodom, according to the Bible:

Now this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, plenty of food, and comfortable security, but didn’t support the poor and needy.

You are correct that this describes much of the west.

Jesus spoke about pride and giving to the poor, but he also taught about loving one's enemies. According to Jesus, going to war is wrong, as well as the sins of Sodom that God warned Ezekiel about.

Why stop at verse 49? Everyone committed those sins, and they weren’t wiped out. The next verse, 50, says why they were wiped out: “And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.”

[Ken]

Why do you think that? Very few Americans reacted to atrocities when they thought the US was "fighting terror"

I was under the impression that quite a few of us Americans were reacting to American atrocities. I'm not in the streets protesting Russia's actions like I was those of the US. All invasions are wrong, but now is the time to focus on the invasion taking place now.

America is currently engaging in or supporting invasions just as bad as the current incidents with Russia.

For example, America just shipped more missiles to Saudi Arabia to be rained down on Yemen. I do not understand why Ukraine generates so much more sympathy and press then Yemen.

Yes, the US should cut ties with Saudi Arabia. On that point we agree.

[nett]

This^ Russians we know here in Germany believe Putin wholeheartedly. These are normally lovely people, warm, friendly and very open. But they really dislike Ukraine and believe that the Ukrainians are committing atrocities on their own people and just about every other narrative Putin has spun. There is a real fear that the Ukrainians will also start using chemical warfare.

There were atrocities committed by the Ukrainian military in the Donbas though. That's not Putin's spin. It was actually pretty widely reported prior to the invasion, but the international community did not seem to care.

[Ken]

This^ Russians we know here in Germany believe Putin wholeheartedly. These are normally lovely people, warm, friendly and very open. But they really dislike Ukraine and believe that the Ukrainians are committing atrocities on their own people and just about every other narrative Putin has spun. There is a real fear that the Ukrainians will also start using chemical warfare.

There were atrocities committed by the Ukrainian military in the Donbas though. That's not Putin's spin. It was actually pretty widely reported prior to the invasion, but the international community did not seem to care.

For example?

[Josh]

This^ Russians we know here in Germany believe Putin wholeheartedly. These are normally lovely people, warm, friendly and very open. But they really dislike Ukraine and believe that the Ukrainians are committing atrocities on their own people and just about every other narrative Putin has spun. There is a real fear that the Ukrainians will also start using chemical warfare.

There were atrocities committed by the Ukrainian military in the Donbas though. That's not Putin's spin. It was actually pretty widely reported prior to the invasion, but the international community did not seem to care.

For example?

google.com/search?q=donbas+atrocities+2015

[Neto]

When i visited Montreal, 1970-ish, i was mortified to find Quebecians Québécois hating+fighting each other over language.
When my 20-something son visited friends in Brazil, he returned in shock that Brazilians hate Mexicans. we don’t know why. not sure a reason is necessary.

With humans, nothing surprises too much. “It’s always something.”

We lived in Brazil for 18 years, and have visited there several times since, and I do not recall ever having heard that.

However, we never lived in southern Brazil, where most tourists go. We lived in three different large cities, Forteleza, CE for 10 months, Brasilia (federal capitol) for 5 months, and the remainder of that time in Porto Velho, RO (except for the time we were in the village, in the state of Amazonas).

There were individuals who said that they "like Americans, but hate out government" (during the 2nd Iraq war), and many sided with Cuba against the US, feeling that the embargo against them should have been lifted long ago. (I am not political, but tend to agree. Why does the USA do business with China & Vietnam, and not Cuba?)

Thanks. i don’t doubt this at all.
i think, when making a statement like my son did, “people in Brazil hate Mexicans,” this probably reflects “those people i met,” in any given country. Brazil is huge+diverse, i would expect regional and local variations. For instance, when we visited Quebec and ran into heated fighting over language, i don’t believe this was happening in other provinces. When someone visits NYC, they will have a different experience than if they visited New Orleans.

So, other than what politicians+media claim, unity within any given country is questionable. At best, they may speak of majorities (and hope they’re right, or insist they’re right) but ..

My son was visiting near Iguazu Falls, they visited the falls, and they also took him hours into the jungle to visit family there.

He was in his 20’s, it was quite an eye opener for him. Poverty shocked him. No running hot water.

(Sorry, I couldn't help myself. We never had running hot water in Brazil. Except when I had rigged a grid of 3 inch sewer pipe in a trough at the edge of the roof, and piped that into our kitchen. This was out at the city, on the mission center, not in the village. The only warm water we ever had there was heated in a pot, on the stove. It just struck me funny....)