Can the Kingdom of God speak to political matters?

[nett]

But the invading Roman army was nevertheless perpetuating an injustice even if Jesus commanded his followers to turn the other cheek, walk the extra mile and give Caesar his due.

Yes - yet Jesus didn’t launch a defensive military encounter with the Romans.

He did call the individual Roman soldiers to follow him too and to “do violence to no man”.

I invite anyone to explain to me how Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is worse than the Roman Empire.

I agree with all of these statements, Josh. I can acede to these ideas and also agree that the invasion of another country is a deep injustice. What's more, I can agree that the invaded country is imperfect as well and is probably not wholly innocent in the conflict. In the specific context of Russia-Ukraine that means Putin has committed an injustice in his invasion and Ukraine has acted in brash, unwise ways leading up to the conflict that, while not justifying the escalating unjust actions of Putin, nevertheless render them not exactly innocent babes in the conflict. As Christians we can point all of this out without appearing to cheerlead for a particular side. Some here appear to cheerlead for or at least diminish Ukraine's seeming complicity in this conflict. Others here seem to want to justify Putin's rationalizations for invasion and dismiss any criticism of the invasion as Western propaganda. Both are intellectual ditches that we ought not fall into. Our inability to think as one, to find common ground through the Holy Spirit, to be a unified 'third way' on this issue is troubling to me. Why is that?

I disagree with your decision to take a side here. Jesus would have said something about Rome if it was so important that his kingdom "speak to political" matters.

We can have some discourse despite that disagreement though.

In your opinion, Is there ever a "just" reason for a nation to invade another without being directly attacked first?

[GaryK]

I despise war. I saw first hand what it did in Liberia and the trauma it brought to the people there. Yet wars continue as they always have and always will as long as this fallen world remains in place. The human suffering in wars is terrible and always will be.

The KOG message to those suffering the effects of war is one of loving compassion and an invitation to join the Kingdom of Jesus where the loving of enemies is the way of life. If we have access to those responsible for directing these war machines, we should call them to repentance and life in our Kingdom.

[nett]

I despise war. I saw first hand what it did in Liberia and the trauma it brought to the people there. Yet wars continue as they always have and always will as long as this fallen world remains in place. The human suffering in wars is terrible and always will be.

The KOG message to those suffering the effects of war is one of loving compassion and an invitation to join the Kingdom of Jesus where the loving of enemies is the way of life. If we have access to those responsible for directing these war machines, we should call them to repentance and life in our Kingdom.

Same. I do however believe that outside of Christian community, war is inevitable, and often putting off inevitable conflict makes it worse in the end.

I believe this invasion of Ukraine has actually been peaceful compared to what is possible with modern weaponry, or what we will see if WW3 breaks out.

[HondurasKeiser]

I disagree with your decision to take a side here. Jesus would have said something about Rome if it was so important that his kingdom "speak to political" matters.

We can have some discourse despite that disagreement though.

In your opinion, Is there ever a "just" reason for a nation to invade another without being directly attacked first?

I don't think I understand your post. Are you suggesting I am taking a side? I think I am not. I am trying to point out that we can see war as unjust, invasion as unjust and the invaded as not free of guilt either. That doesn't feel like taking a side to me. Is that what you're suggesting?

[Josh]

I disagree with your decision to take a side here. Jesus would have said something about Rome if it was so important that his kingdom "speak to political" matters.

We can have some discourse despite that disagreement though.

In your opinion, Is there ever a "just" reason for a nation to invade another without being directly attacked first?

I don't think I understand your post. Are you suggesting I am taking a side? I think I am not. I am trying to point out that we can see war as unjust, invasion as unjust and the invaded as not free of guilt either. That doesn't feel like taking a side to me. Is that what you're suggesting?

My only disagreement is that I don’t think it’s an “invasion”: I think Russia’s actions are defensive, not offensive.

But with that said, my feeling as a Christian is that war is always wrong. The believer can learn how to surrender to one’s enemies instead of fighting back with force. If somehow the entire people of Luhansk and Donetsk were to become NT believers I would feel I have a message for them to accept joyfully being wronged, invaded, and having their goods seized and being shelled by Ukrainian hostile forces. My message to the western Ukrainians with what they face from Russia now would be the same.

But since we are in America perhaps we should think a bit closer to home. Could we joyfully accept a foreign invasion or would we try to asset our rights, join the militias, join the national guard, buy war bonds and promote a draft? So far our track is very bad - we have been complicit in hostile aggressive wars around the globe. With that in mind, I don’t feel I can climb on a moral high horse about how the Russians in Donbas or the western Ukrainians should be doing better.

The Mennonites I am familiar with in Ukraine and Russia have had to flee, other than the old women who don’t need to worry about the draft.

[Sudsy]

Back to your question - sorry, can you be more specific on what 'two passages above' you are referring to ? (old age ?)

There has been a lot of talk about how Russia's actions are unjustified. I cannot make any sense of that in a Christian sense. I'm asking how you decide that Russia is wrong here?

Sorry, been busy elsewhere. To your question - it is not for me to judge. As shared in previous post the scriptures saying that the judgment of unbelievers is God's territory, not mine. My flesh wants to judge but my spirit says not to when I allow the Holy Spirit to guide me. If I don't pay attention to the Spirit's guidance, I get drawn into these opinion wars between professing believers on what the unsaved world is doing and they most often go the way of arguing. At times using wording that can easily be the same as calling each other an idiot (which Jesus said is murder).

I'm glad we can avoid a forum like 'Politics' to avoid these sinful fights and it seems to me 'Current Events' forum can be just as bad. And now this one here under 'General Theology' gets into spats also.

Well, I better get off this topic and take a walk.

[nett]

I don't think I understand your post. Are you suggesting I am taking a side? I think I am not. I am trying to point out that we can see war as unjust, invasion as unjust and the invaded as not free of guilt either. That doesn't feel like taking a side to me. Is that what you're suggesting?

It feels to my you've taken the side of the majority of the western world in deciding that Russia has done something unjust by invading without provocation. hence why I asked.

In your opinion, Is there ever a "just" reason for a nation to invade another without being directly attacked first?

Your opinion about this determines whether you are taking a side.

[ohio jones]

But since we are in America perhaps we should think a bit closer to home. Could we joyfully accept a foreign invasion or would we try to asset our rights, join the militias, join the national guard, buy war bonds and promote a draft? So far our track is very bad - we have been complicit in hostile aggressive wars around the globe.

This is a we bit confusing. The "we" in the first two sentences seems directed, or at least applicable, to nonresistant Christians. The "we" in the last sentence seems like it's referring to Americans in general. Could we (the readers of MN) receive clarification?

[Josh]

But since we are in America perhaps we should think a bit closer to home. Could we joyfully accept a foreign invasion or would we try to asset our rights, join the militias, join the national guard, buy war bonds and promote a draft? So far our track is very bad - we have been complicit in hostile aggressive wars around the globe.

This is a we bit confusing. The "we" in the first two sentences seems directed, or at least applicable, to nonresistant Christians. The "we" in the last sentence seems like it's referring to Americans in general. Could we (the readers of MN) receive clarification?

I hold the view most nonresistant believers have had a tendency to be complicit in the misdeeds of their nation. In my own circles there is a tendency to buy into right wing patriotic viewpoints. Other groups are infected with left wing politics. Either way, doing so makes us guilty of whatever our preferred political and patriotic alignment is doing.

The events in Eastern Europe have made this crystal clear. The clarion call is for all people to pick a side and be ready to fight for it. The excuse is “this is just defense, the bad guys invaded us.”

[HondurasKeiser]

It feels to my you've taken the side of the majority of the western world in deciding that Russia has done something unjust by invading without provocation. hence why I asked.

Well from what I've read, and I've attempted to read widely on the issue, it seems that while Russia may have their reasons - the invasion as it's unfolded is an unjust one. Though I am open to the possibility that I am wrong. Especially, since I am not there and realize I am probably being manipulated by a number of competing actors. Likewise, I recognize Ukraine is not innocent in this conflict.

In your opinion, Is there ever a "just" reason for a nation to invade another without being directly attacked first?

From a Natural Law perspective, that is the God-ordained justice that rules us all in the secular; it seems Augustine came up with a pretty high standard for what constitutes a 'Just War'. Preemptive action is allowed but that's an extremely difficult criteria to meet. Knowing what I know about the current war, it seems Putin's rationale does not meet Augustine's criteria.

Your opinion about this determines whether you are taking a side.

Perhaps it does or perhaps it doesn't. I suppose that's for each person to determine how my words come across. I do know, that as a Christian I am to call both sides to the Peace of Christ's Kingdom which eschews all war, unjust or otherwise.