Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Ken]

The only reason you all care this much, is the media whipped you up into it.

I don't share Neto's family history, but I have Ukrainian-American friends. I have connections to people who have adopted Ukrainian children. I have connections to people in neighboring countries who are working tirelessly to minister to Ukrainian refugees. What I'm hearing from these people is not in conflict with what I'm hearing from the media. But perhaps it explains why I'm paying more attention to this situation that to other things happening in other places, and will continue to do so if or when the headlines move on to other matters.

It's fine to point out biases and agendae and sensationalism on the part of the media, which certainly exist, but that can be done without becoming a devil's advocate for the other side.

Perspective...

In considering why people are reacting so strongly to the Ukraine invasion, it's worth noting the size and effect of this war - nearly 200,000 invading troops, roughly 1,000 incoming missiles thus far, extensive destruction of Ukrainian cities, thousands of civilians killed, 3 million external refugees in just a few weeks (almost half of them children!), destabilized world markets, nuclear powers inched closer to all-out war - the media hasn't "whipped this up". This is a BIG DEAL! In fact, it's the most significant world invasion in almost 20 years (since Iraq), and the largest war in Europe in a lifetime.

Probably also because it is on NATO's doorstep and threatens to engulf NATO and the western world in another world war in a way that war in Syria or Yemen doesn't. And like it or not, most of the people on this forum live in NATO countries.

[Szdfan]

The only reason you all care this much, is the media whipped you up into it.

I don't share Neto's family history, but I have Ukrainian-American friends. I have connections to people who have adopted Ukrainian children. I have connections to people in neighboring countries who are working tirelessly to minister to Ukrainian refugees. What I'm hearing from these people is not in conflict with what I'm hearing from the media. But perhaps it explains why I'm paying more attention to this situation that to other things happening in other places, and will continue to do so if or when the headlines move on to other matters.

It's fine to point out biases and agendae and sensationalism on the part of the media, which certainly exist, but that can be done without becoming a devil's advocate for the other side.

As I’ve pointed out elsewhere, I’ve been to Ukraine (specifically Donetsk) and my father is a Russian citizen in Kaliningrad. So yes, this is part of the world I care about.

[Ken]

I find it frustrating the same concern hasn’t been extended to ethnic Russians who have been dealing with this for the last 8 years. It just seems hopelessly biased.

The International Court of Justice just ruled TODAY on Russia's claims of genocide and war crimes by Ukraine in the Donbass which you are referencing here. They reviewed all the evidence presented and this is what they found:

[temporal1]

“Ukraine, Russia Make Progress in Finding Common Ground in Ceasefire Talks”
https://www.theepochtimes.com/ukraine-r ... 42605.html

Ukraine and Russia appear to have found some common ground amid ceasefire talks, according to information released from both sides.

“The only thing we confirm at this stage is a ceasefire, withdrawal of Russian troops and security guarantees from a number of countries,” Mykhailo Podoliyak, adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, wrote in a Twitter post.

Podoliyak is also one of Ukraine’s representatives at the Russia–Ukraine ceasefire negotiations.

He confirmed a draft ceasefire deal reported on by the Financial Times but said it only represents the position of the Russian side.

He also encouraged a direct dialogue between Zelensky and Russian President Vladimir Putin.

According to the Financial Times, the 15-point draft would include Kyiv abandoning its pursuit of The North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) membership, declaring neutrality, accepting limits on its armed forces, and promising not to host foreign military bases or weapons; leading to a ceasefire and withdrawal of Russian forces from Ukraine.

The two sides apparently are making headway based on the revealed conditions.

Zelensky already conceded that Ukraine will likely abandon the pursuit of NATO membership, a critical Russian concern that was used to justify the invasion.

He said on Tuesday that his country has to accept that it will not become a member of the NATO military alliance.

“Ukraine is not a member of NATO. We understand that. We have heard for years that the doors were open, but we also heard that we could not join. It’s a truth and it must be recognized,” Zelensky said during a video conference with the UK-led Joint Expeditionary Force.

The Russian side also expressed some optimism in the ongoing negotiations.

Russia’s Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Wednesday that a “business-like spirit” has emerged in negotiations with “concrete formulations” that he said are close to being agreed on.

“A neutral status is being seriously discussed in connection with security guarantees,” Lavrov said. “There are concrete formulations that in my view are close to being agreed.”

Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered a full-scale invasion of Ukraine on Feb. 24 after the efforts to deter war failed.

The United Nations said that, as of March 14, they had recorded 691 deaths and 1,143 injuries of civilians in Ukraine because of Russia’s military action against Ukraine, mostly caused by shelling and airstrikes.

However, the U.N. believes that the actual figures are “considerably higher.”

i don’t find anything new in this, but, at least talks seem to be continuing.

[Josh]

I don't share Neto's family history, but I have Ukrainian-American friends. I have connections to people who have adopted Ukrainian children. I have connections to people in neighboring countries who are working tirelessly to minister to Ukrainian refugees. What I'm hearing from these people is not in conflict with what I'm hearing from the media. But perhaps it explains why I'm paying more attention to this situation that to other things happening in other places, and will continue to do so if or when the headlines move on to other matters.

It's fine to point out biases and agendae and sensationalism on the part of the media, which certainly exist, but that can be done without becoming a devil's advocate for the other side.

Perspective...

In considering why people are reacting so strongly to the Ukraine invasion, it's worth noting the size and effect of this war - nearly 200,000 invading troops, roughly 1,000 incoming missiles thus far, extensive destruction of Ukrainian cities, thousands of civilians killed, 3 million external refugees in just a few weeks (almost half of them children!), destabilized world markets, nuclear powers inched closer to all-out war - the media hasn't "whipped this up". This is a BIG DEAL! In fact, it's the most significant world invasion in almost 20 years (since Iraq), and the largest war in Europe in a lifetime.

Probably also because it is on NATO's doorstep and threatens to engulf NATO and the western world in another world war in a way that war in Syria or Yemen doesn't. And like it or not, most of the people on this forum live in NATO countries.

… but 1 million dead Iraqis is ok?

[temporal1]

i’d forgotten about Hunter Biden’s big job in Ukraine, and other Biden family Ukraine snippets.

Jan 24 2022 / “What Does Vladimir Putin Have on Joe Biden?”
Joe and Hunter Biden’s seedy involvements in Ukraine may have given the Russian leader all the ‘kompromat’
he needs to keep America at bay
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news ... -joe-biden

.. But that doesn’t seem to be all.
You don’t need a secret dossier authored by a British ex-spy for hire like Christopher Steele to understand the possible weird real-world mirror version of Russiagate. This time, it’s basically all out in the open—or at least it was, until the press and social media scrubbed reports of Hunter Biden’s laptop from the internet in the run-up to the 2020 election. The laptop, whose provenance and contents have both since checked out beyond any shadow of doubt, give evidence of Hunter’s financial relationships with foreign officials and businesses, like the more than $50,000 per month he got for sitting on the board of Burisma, a Ukrainian energy company, starting in the spring of 2014.

The reason that a company like Burisma was willing to pay the drug-addled son of the vice president of the United States so much money for a no-show job wasn’t to buy his expertise in natural gas exploration and drilling, of course.

Hunter Biden’s sordid memoir, Beautiful Things, published last year, makes it clear that, during the period in question, he was a wreck of a human being who spent lavishly on crack and methamphetamine, which he consumed in expensive hotel rooms in the company of prostitutes. It would seem that the obvious point of paying Hunter Biden was to buy protection from the American official in charge of Ukraine policy—Joe Biden. .. ..

it continues ..

[Ken]

Perspective...

In considering why people are reacting so strongly to the Ukraine invasion, it's worth noting the size and effect of this war - nearly 200,000 invading troops, roughly 1,000 incoming missiles thus far, extensive destruction of Ukrainian cities, thousands of civilians killed, 3 million external refugees in just a few weeks (almost half of them children!), destabilized world markets, nuclear powers inched closer to all-out war - the media hasn't "whipped this up". This is a BIG DEAL! In fact, it's the most significant world invasion in almost 20 years (since Iraq), and the largest war in Europe in a lifetime.

Probably also because it is on NATO's doorstep and threatens to engulf NATO and the western world in another world war in a way that war in Syria or Yemen doesn't. And like it or not, most of the people on this forum live in NATO countries.

… but 1 million dead Iraqis is ok?

I'm not making a judgement call. I am just suggesting that war in Europe has a greater potential to engulf the west in another world war conflict between great powers in a way that the US intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan or the Russian intervention in Syria did not. And that is at least part of the reason why this conflict is garnering such attention.

[Soloist]

Probably also because it is on NATO's doorstep and threatens to engulf NATO and the western world in another world war in a way that war in Syria or Yemen doesn't. And like it or not, most of the people on this forum live in NATO countries.

… but 1 million dead Iraqis is ok?

I'm not making a judgement call. I am just suggesting that war in Europe has a greater potential to engulf the west in another world war conflict between great powers in a way that the US intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan or the Russian intervention in Syria did not. At that is at least part of the reason why this conflict is garnering such attention.

Well hopefully there is lasting peace and Russia's demand of non-NATO membership really was the goal to begin with and its not just a ploy.

[Josh]

1 million defenceless people killed matters far more than the “great powers” having yet another conflict. (When have they not had a conflict?)

[ohio jones]

1 million defenceless people killed matters far more than the “great powers” having yet another conflict. (When have they not had a conflict?)

That would be a thread for the History forum. This one is in Current Events.