Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[mike]

Is it any wonder that the west is constantly dealing with an influx of legal and illegal immigration. For people who live in parts of the world where there is the constant shadow of this kind of instability, it’s no wonder why many would choose to invest their future elsewhere.

It isn't just Ukraine.

I have both Russian and Ukrainian students in my classes. I was talking to one of my Russian students today and asking about his family. He only has cousins left in Russia, the rest of his immediate family is here. He says his cousins are all leaving Russia. They are traveling east and crossing the border into Kazakhstan where they plan to fly onward to India or London I think and then possibly the US if they can. The US family will be wiring them money as soon as they are out of Russia so they can continue onwards.

The consensus in his family is that Russia is no longer a functional place to live for religious and economic reasons. They are Baptists not Orthodox and fear religious persecution as well as economic problems.

Right. It’s places in Africa. The Middle East. Central and South America. Even in places like Taiwan where you just never know when the Chinese hammer will drop. Forward thinking people who don’t want to live under that kind of instability are going to migrate if they can. And this is nothing new.

[mike]

What will happen to the vast amount of damaged infrastructure after this war is over if Russia wins control over Ukraine? if Ukraine keeps its independence? Where is the money going to come from? It's clear from the pictures and videos that the damage is staggering.

[temporal1]

What will happen to the vast amount of damaged infrastructure after this war is over if Russia wins control over Ukraine? if Ukraine keeps its independence? Where is the money going to come from? It's clear from the pictures and videos that the damage is staggering.

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status
https://twitter.com/iwacu_amaho

When Iraq was raging, GW Bush “took my breath away” with his many public promises to the people of Iraq of billiins+billions+billions to rebuild. Numbers ‘way beyond my ability to grasp. His promises described a country well beyond the U.S. in comfort+wealth. Staggering promises of ideal life. (as i remember.) i could not imagine such promises, i could only wonder, “how?”

2021 / “America's promise to Iraqis turns out to be just lip service”
https://www.ciis.org.cn/english/COMMENT ... _8120.html

2006 / “Bush pulls the plug on Iraq reconstruction” / $18bn funding to stop at end of year
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/jan/03/usa.iraq

2013 / “Bush promised Iraqi civilians a better future. What are their lives like now?”
Bush promised Iraqi civilians a better future. Is that what they got?
https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/bush-promis ... -msna19967

My prayers and hope remain with Putin+Zelensky’s talks.

[JimFoxvog]

Russia is currently a terrifying example of an economy being brutalized, and China has got to be watching that carefully.

Why does Russia deserve to have their economy brutalized, almost exclusively affecting the normal citizens (it's almost impossible to starve the military of a country that grows the majority of their own food), but the US does not deserve to be sanctioned for the war crimes we have committed, and continue to commit to this day?

I've seen a lot of support for the sanctions on this thread, and it doesn't seem very consistent.

I believe there should be warnings of sanctions for particular actions of the US. If the US does not comply, the sanctions should be imposed. Then maybe the country would change its behavior.

[mike]

Population of Ukraine: 44 million

[temporal1]

Thankfully, most have gone to Poland and Hungary, both pro-family countries.
Interesting that Russia has 131,000+.

“How many refugees have fled Ukraine and where are they going?”
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-60555472

[temporal1]

(private opinion) QUORA: “Did the US rebuild Vietnam into the successful country it is today?”
https://www.quora.com/Did-the-US-rebuil ... t-is-today

No, Vietnam did.

The Vietnamese helped themselves when they took a page out of Deng Xiaoping’s book and adopted similar policies in the 1980s, but ultimately, any success that united Vietnam has had should be credited to the people of Vietnam.

The Vietnamese people have had a remarkable record during their history of defending their independence from far stronger powers, and of building and rebuilding their Nation after conflicts. The fact that they have re-emerged as a successful country after more than a century of struggle against colonialism and then neo-colonialism should not shock anyone with even a cursory knowledge of the history of Vietnam.

The United States’ only role in this was as the last of the neo-colonial powers which attempted to control Vietnam, and which instead succeeded in uniting Vietnam with its interference.

I would prefer to have them on our side in any future conflicts…

My prayers and hope remain with Putin+Zelensky’s talks.

[Szdfan]

It’s as if you did not listen to interviews in this thread with India’s (retired) Amb. Venkatesh Varma or John Mearshiemer, or maybe any other source that approaches this terrible situation with a problem-solving pov.

First of all, do you honestly believe that anyone else here is going to watch a 45 minute YouTube video with a retired diplomat from a country that's not involved in the conflict? Just curious.

Are you ignoring attempts at talks between Putin and Zelensky?

I'm not ignoring the talks. I've been following them in the media (despite what you have said elsewhere, the mainstream media is reporting on the talks). I think diplomacy is essential, but I'm not optimistic that at this point the talks are going to end the war until things become more clear on the ground. As long as Ukraine believes it can fight back, it's not going to agree to a set of demands that steals its territory and hands its sovereignty over to the Russians. I don't think the Ukranians can assume any good faith from the Russians. At the talks last week in Turkey, Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov claimed that Russia didn't attack Ukraine. Putin stated earlier that if Ukraine resists the Russians, they will lose statehood and it will be their own fault. That kind of gaslighting makes me pessimistic about an immediate diplomatic solution.

When you say the invasion makes a good argument for NATO presence, well, that’s a chicken+egg question.
It also becomes, “It’s ok i’m doing this - he made me.”

Of course it is -- this is an incredibly messy situation. I believe that NATO expansion into Eastern Europe was provocative, but it didn't justify Russia's invasion of Ukraine and when Russia beats up on its weaker neighbors, it justifies the necessity of NATO. It is a circular dynamic.

[mike]

Twitter thread by a Ukrainian journalist about the state of the war in the south of Ukraine.



Bottom line tweet:

[Ernie]

What will happen to the vast amount of damaged infrastructure after this war is over if Russia wins control over Ukraine? if Ukraine keeps its independence? Where is the money going to come from? It's clear from the pictures and videos that the damage is staggering.

I've been wondering the same thing.